Whole and in the real world

If they're whole people from the beginning, a lot of those problems and stages don't even exist. They're artificial, and they have to do with school.

Sometimes people say, "Well how will your kids know how to live in the real world?"

And I say "What do you mean by 'the real world'?"
And that's a trap.🙂

17:30 on the recording of An Interview with Sandra Dodd
photo by Holly Dodd
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Real life in the real world

"Scientific studies have their place in the world, but we can't let them stand in the way of seeing the real-world behavior of our real life kids."

—Meredith Novak

SandraDodd.com/eating/healthfood
photo by Julie D
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Real world

The thing I think I've seen more than anything else in some of the older unschoolers, the people who are teens who haven't been to school much or at all, is they are so whole. Their place in the world is real. They're not preparing for the possibility of applying to have a place in the world after they're grown. They are in the world. And there's something so different about that.

Unschooling and Real Learning
photo by Sarah Dickinson

The open flow of real-world sharing

from 2004, Sandra Dodd:

The best thing unschoolers can do is to unschool well. The best thing those who are interested in helping others come along the same path can do is explain what helped it work well.

Reading other families' personal stories, hearing about paths that didn't work well and others that did is what helped me when I was new to this, and that's what I've been involved in helping happen ever since—real unschoolers sharing their real experiences.

Some people don't want to share in public and that's fine. Some people share things in public that turn out not to be true, and that's not cool. But over the years, many hundreds of unschoolers who first found one another through AOL's message boards, or at conferences, or through e-mail correspondence have met other unschoolers in person, and each person must ultimately gauge for herself who to emulate or trust or to go to for inspiration or whatever. There is no central board certifying unschoolers or conference organizers or listowners. It's the open flow of real-world sharing.

In 2024 I'm still offering a hand.
SandraDodd.com/help
photo by Linda Wyatt

Doozy Dodd

This is what unschooling, though, has done for Holly. She is not a student. She is Holly. She is not a fourth grader. She is Holly Dodd. She has been since birth, and she will be until or unless she decides to go by another name, but that will be her decision. The world is hers in a way that the world has never been mine, not even now as an adult. Sometimes I see myself as a messy amalgamation of experiences, certificates, test scores and labels, just come lately into the real world.

I see my children living full, real lives today, right now. I don't see them as students in preparation for life, who after a number of years and lessons might be considered "completed" or "graduated." It was a long way to come, and I never even had to move. I just had to look at what I considered to be real.



That was written in early 2002,
when Holly was ten years old.
At twenty-one years old, she goes by Doozy.

SandraDodd.com/fullofyourself
photo ("Holly Dodge") by Sandra Dodd
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Real vs. acting, or practicing

Writing done in school is practice writing, mostly. That "math" done in school is the calculations of other people's math. It's all at least two steps from "real world," while saying "this is the real world."

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That is from a discussion about the depth of being, rather than of acting like a child's partner. Examples were used, and tangents were taken. The longer collection is at:
"Partners," examined

photo by Holly Dodd

The Real World for Babies

From a learning standpoint, when babies are carried they see more, they hear and smell more. If they are given things to touch and taste besides just a few baby toys left in the corner of a crib or playpen, they will learn by leaps and bounds. They will spend less time crying and more time being in the real world.

The parents will know the child better, and the child will know the parents better. They will be building a partnership based on trust.

The Big Book of Unschooling, "Babies"

SandraDodd.com/attachment
photo by Sandra Dodd, at a fabric store
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Finding a social spot

Humans are social animals, and learn in mixed-age groups, when they learn naturally. A family can create that natural learning environment, or can fail to create it. :-/ Being around other people, though, IF AND WHEN a child wants to learn and is encouraged by parents to learn how to be considerate and sociable, can be a good place to learn "manners"—ways to behave politely.

In school, children are still social animals with the need to identify who might help them, and what their role is within the social structure. The social structure being unnaturally 20+ kids the same age, they figure out who are the leaders and the "young" and they act in accordance with their instincts in an unnatural setting. More adults to—teens, and young adults, and middle-aged, and elderly, behaving in natural real-world ways. TV is better for that than school is. Ideally, a rich unschooled life *IN* the real world is better than either.



photo by Julie D

I can't find where I wrote that, up there, but three people shared it in 2012,
and I still think it's true. —Sandra

Life-in-progress

The structured homeschooling that involves buying a curriculum and teaching at the kitchen table on a schedule is not the control group the school system needed. Those who practice “school at home” serve to reinforce the school’s claims that they could do better if they had more teachers and better equipment. When a structured family has high test scores, the schools say “SEE? We could do that too if we had one teacher per three or four students.”. . . .
Scientifically speaking, my children are not a control group. They’re not isolated and kept purely away from school methods and messages. But what is unquestionable is that there are now thousands of children who are learning without formal teaching. They are learning from the world around them, from being with interesting and interested adults doing real work and real play. Instead of being put away with other children to prepare for life, they are joining life-in-progress right at birth, and never leaving “the real world.”

SandraDodd.com/thoughts
photo of Holly Dodd and Adam Daniel, by Adam's mom

Repeated, photo and all, from October 11, 2011. Holly is twenty-four years old now, and Adam is ten.
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Life-in-progress

The structured homeschooling that involves buying a curriculum and teaching at the kitchen table on a schedule is not the control group the school system needed. Those who practice “school at home” serve to reinforce the school’s claims that they could do better if they had more teachers and better equipment. When a structured family has high test scores, the schools say “SEE? We could do that too if we had one teacher per three or four students.”. . . .
Scientifically speaking, my children are not a control group. They’re not isolated and kept purely away from school methods and messages. But what is unquestionable is that there are now thousands of children who are learning without formal teaching. They are learning from the world around them, from being with interesting and interested adults doing real work and real play. Instead of being put away with other children to prepare for life, they are joining life-in-progress right at birth, and never leaving “the real world.”

SandraDodd.com/thoughts
photo of Holly Dodd and Adam Daniel, by Adam's mom
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Media relativity

This was written about children and the internet, a few years ago, by me:

If a child has nothing else to do and no affirmation of wholeness, the internet can be an escape from what seems a lack of life. But when life is big and real and happy, the child will be there, in his own real life.

"There" where? There in his own real life. And perhaps also on the internet. Or perhaps playing World of Warcraft. Maybe watching a movie he's seen ten times before, or television re-runs. Maybe playing an XBox or a Wii game.

As long as you provide a variety of good options, you can trust that your child is choosing his activities by preference, desire, and interest, rather than out of avoidance and escape.

When life is big and real and happy,
the child will be there, in his own real life.


vaguely-related image, by Holly Dodd

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The original post didn't have a link, but here are two later things:

link to a 2024 podcast / video interview

Again! The value of watching or listening or seeing again

In the world

The thing I think I've seen more than anything else in some of the older unschoolers, the people who are teens who haven't been to school much or at all, is they are so whole. Their place in the world is real. They're not preparing for the possibility of applying to have a place in the world after they're grown. They are in the world. And there's something so different about that.

Unschooling and Real Learning
photo by Sarah Dickinson

Seeing peace

Words and photo by Belinda Dutch:



My teenagers who don’t always find it easy to ‘hang out’ together, sharing the fire. Dog is just out of shot. Louis is watching an instructional video on a game made by a friend and Olly is watching real people jumping horses. I ealised that this would normally be interpreted grumpily as ‘today’s teenagers always plugged in, should participate in the real world more,’ and instead I relish it as ‘my teenagers peacefully hanging out together and with me, while following their passions and engaging with the world.’

Thank you for helping me see that! And if you ever want to use the pic you are welcome :-) it’s nice and wintery….

Learning to See Differently
photo by Belinda Dutch

Socializing?

What about socialization?
Schools "teach" children to get along in school. Children who live in the real world learn to get along with real people of all ages, in all kinds of situations.

When I was in elementary school, the lowest marks I got were C's (average) in conduct, or deportment. I talked too much. Way more than once I was shushed in class with the admonition, "You're not here to socialize."

SandraDodd.com/faq
photo by Polly G, with Julie D's camera

Meaningful learning

Learning must be meaningful. When a person doesn't see the point, when they don't know how the information relates or is useful in "the real world," then the learning is superficial and temporary - not "real" learning.

—Pam Sorooshian

Principles of Unschooling
photo by Sandra Dodd
(of booted feet of Holly D. and Heather B.)

Fun shelter

"Don't shelter them from the world. Don't let them loose in it. Walk with them, paying attention to what it looks like they need to know (not what you think they should know). Partner with them in this real world we live in, so that they can learn, with your guidance and support, how to make the most of their explorations and their ever-growing experience."

—Karen James

SandraDodd.com/karenjames/deschooling
photo by Hinano
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Comfort, Joy and Decision Making

When the parents are curious and can find joy in exploring and discussing common interesting things in the everyday world, unschooling can make a lot of sense very easily. Optimism and positive attitudes help. If the children's comfort and joy can be a high priority and the parents can see the value of letting even young children begin to make choices, by the time the kids are teens they'll have had a great deal of real-world experience in making thoughtful decisions.

SandraDodd.com/interviews/successful
photo by Holly Dodd, through a dollhouse window
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Playing for real

Playing with words makes them come to life.

The history of England, of math, of writing, of counting... all clued above and in all the histories of words. Any portal into the universe is as real as any other. If an interest in language or butterflies or patterns or water creates connections for that person to anything else in the world, that can lead to EVERYTHING else in the world.

A parent cannot decipher the whole world for her child, but she can help him begin to decipher it.

SandraDodd.com/etymology
photo by Sandra Dodd, of a sign in The Mercer Museum
in Doylestown, Pennsylvania
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Makes sense

When the parents are curious and can find joy in exploring and discussing common interesting things in the everyday world, unschooling can make a lot of sense very easily. Optimism and positive attitudes help. If the children's comfort and joy can be a high priority and the parents can see the value of letting even young children begin to make choices, by the time the kids are teens they'll have had a great deal of real-world experience in making thoughtful decisions.

Sandra Dodd in a 2009 interview
photo by Susan Gaissert

Sketch Books

Some families take sketch books with them on hikes and draw pictures of animals or plants, or maps, or take notes. They don't need to be great art, but if you practice recording what you see and think in ways other than words it will broaden your range of thought and abilities. And the updated version of the sketch book is the digital camera; the new field journal is the blog!

Maybe look at purses or wallets or shoulder bags. The shapes of intersections and overpasses and the railings on bridges. Public gardens and fountains. Street signs and traffic lights. The texture of concrete in different forms and uses. Wall coverings (paper or cloth; marble; paint; brick; tile…). Landscaping. Doorknobs and handles. Stairways and elevators. Waiting areas for the bus or train. Billboards and marquees. Clocks and watches. Hair clips. Key chains. Drinking glasses.

Even when more schools had art programs, they were limited. Unschoolers are not limited in their exposure to art in the vast everyday world.

Although it shouldn't be the starting or ending place, don't forget that the real world includes books and videos. There are museum sites online, too, with images of art you can zoom in on.

from "Art," page 84/85, Big Book of Unschooling
photo by Sandra Dodd