Helping teens

Written when Holly Dodd was 18 (2009), of when she was in her mid-teens:

Holly has had a few jobs. One was working at a skateboard and clothing store in a mall a few miles away. One was working at a flower shop just a few hundred yards away; she walked. But the shop had another shop on the air base, and sometimes she worked there, so she had a base pass and a key to both shops. When Holly's jobs require driving, we let her use a car. Some of her school-attending friends are told they can't get a job unless they buy a car first. It seems to be a way for the parents to say no and then blame the kids for it.

Some mainstream families press their teenaged children to get jobs, and shame them if they fail, while putting conditions on when and where they can work. The result is that getting a job was just one more "do what the parents make you do" situation, and the jobs aren't fun; they're an extension of school and of parental control.

When teens or young adults have chosen to have a job without desperation for money, and when they are accustomed to learning all the time and living joyfully, they are a different sort of employee.

SandraDodd.com/jobs/bigbook
photo by Cathy Koetsier

"Just enough" is not enough

When Kirby was a baby, I had a rough day, home alone, and when Keith came home I cried. I said I didn't feel like I was doing a good job, and the house was a mess (and all that stuff). He said "Is the baby still alive? Then you did a good job."

It was a nice thought for that one day, but I'm glad I didn't settle for that, with three kids over the next 20+ years.

Thoughts about doing better
or
other posts about being and doing "better"
photo by Cathy Koetsier

Lots of jobs you forgot about

Karen James:

I was a picture framer for ten years before we moved to the US. I loved that job. I got to frame so many objects, including a snowboard, a wedding dress and a gun from the US civil war—first time I had ever held any of those items in my hands. I got to handle and look up close on many wonderful works of art, and hear so many stories about why different things were meaningful to different people. Children's art was some of my favourite to frame.

—Karen James

This is just one of LOTS of stories on a page with a list of a couple of hundred jobs people can ease into by volunteering or on-the-job learning or by becoming certified while doing related work. Reading there will give you other ideas, and stories to tell, and friends to remember.

SandraDodd.com/jobs
foot-pedal self-portrait of Sandra and a quilt made by Lori Odhner,
and it's a link

On-the-job learning

Life. People can live lives, even little kids live lives, without preparation, learning on the job, as they go. They can learn while doing real things with real happiness and real success.

SandraDodd.com/connections/cocktail
photo by Sandra Dodd

Learning-and-living jobs

Some mainstream families press their teenaged children to get jobs, and shame them if they fail, while putting conditions on when and where they can work. The result is that getting a job was just one more "do what the parents make you do" situation, and the jobs aren't fun; they're an extension of school and of parental control.

When teens or young adults have chosen to have a job without desperation for money, and when they are accustomed to learning all the time and living joyfully, they are a different sort of employee.

SandraDodd.com/jobs/bigbook
gif by Holly Dodd

Sleep, choices, jobs

[A] common question is whether someone who grew up without a schedule and a bed time and could ever hold "a real job." The assumption, I think, is that "real jobs" require getting up very early and at the same time every day. Marty did that for over a year when he worked at the grocery store near us. He worked Monday through Friday at 6:30 a.m. He had no problem with that schedule.

Looking up through the list of jobs, I will give as many shift-starting-times as I can remember, and you might wonder if someone who had grown up with a bed time and a regular schedule could ever hold a job.

AM

6:30 8:00 9:00 10:00 11:00

PM

1:00 3:00 4:30 5:00 6:00

---

Since this was written, the starting-times of jobs for my kids has gone around the clock, with Kirby starting sometimes at 11:00 at night (at Blizzard, like a hospital graveyard shift), and beginning at 5:00 a.m. (one of his computer support jobs when he moved back to Albuquerque). When Marty worked stocking shelves at Target, at Christmas season, he was there at 4:00 a.m. a time or two. Probably more.

SandraDodd.com/jobs/bigbook
photo by Janine Davies

Good job! (Is it?)

EVERY DAY you should wonder whether you're doing a good job. And you should do what it takes for you not to wonder about that.

I don't know where I wrote it, but Sylvia Woodman quoted me, in 2011.
I will match it with... Thoughts about doing better
photo by Gail Higgins

Being available during "school hours"

Responses to concerns posted by nervous parents:

Not having a high school diploma didn't keep my always unschooled daughter out of college, AND she got her first paid job BECAUSE she was unschooled - her dance studio needed someone to cover the afternoon classes of a teacher going on maternity leave, none of the regular teachers were available for that time and the older assistants were in school. She's been employed by them ever since.

It's an interesting twist. 🙂

Deborah in Illinois

---

Marty has worked "during school hours" since he turned fifteen, and was offered a fulltime job just before turning 17. None of this keeps him from learning, from doing lots of things with other people, nor will it keep him from the option of college. He's working 6:30a.m. to 3:00 M-F. Kinda like school hours, for the first time in his life. 🙂

Sandra in New Mexico

Both those former teens are grown now. Marty's oldest child turns seven today.

SandraDodd.com/teens/
photo by Sandra Dodd

"Success"

Holly took a picture of a reflection of me. I don't think I would have seen this, but Holly has an artist's eye. My face is on the hills, between the lake and the sky.

Marty can pack a car in a most efficient way, and remember all sorts of emergency or "just-in-case" equipment and provisions. He is helpful, funny, musical, and sweet.

Kirby has lived away from home for over three years now. He has a job with benefits, extra overtime, and nice, new gym. He has lots of friends at work. As he can wear whatever he wants to work, his desire to dress up was unfulfilled, so he bought a nice suit to wear to parties. He recently purchased a very nice car, without any parental assistance on financing. (We offered, but he wanted to establish credit.) He paid $5,000 down on that car, to the chagrin of the finance desk at the dealership. He has no student-loan debt whatsoever.
Is any of that "success"?

"Success" might be as ghostly and insubstantial as that image of me in the photo above. It can look nice, but how permanent is it? How warm? How strong?

Look at the immediate benefits of your decisions.
Look for the good parts of today.
Look for the value in this moment.

---

The ideas above grew too large for this format,
and have been expanded upon at SandraDodd.com/success
photo by Holly Dodd

Three children

Writing from early 2002,then 2012:

And now I have three children who are 10, 13 and 15. They have never been to school. They have never had a math lesson. But today Holly asked me to help her with 7/18 plus 5/18, for a video game she was playing. Kirby has a job and will do his income taxes soon for the second year. Marty was discussing odds and probability earlier with three other teens and his little sister.

Ten years and some later, Holly's about to turn 21, Kirby has done his taxes for years, and all three have taken math classes as young adults, for fun.

SandraDodd.com/unschoolingworks
photo by Sandra Dodd, of three fleeting flowers

I'm not guessing.

I'm confident. I'm not guessing unschooling can work, I know. I've also seen how it can fail, through my correspondence and discussions with so many other homeschooling families. I'm not hoping that kids can still get a job without fifteen years of practice bedtimes; I know they can. (And they would've been "practicing" for the wrong shift anyway.) I don't conjecture that kids can learn to read without being taught, I know. It's happened at my house, in three people's lives.

SandraDodd.com/confidence
photo by Sandra Dodd
P.S.
Just because it *can* work doesn't mean that a family can't fail. If you're going to unschool, do it well. Find your own confidence. Help is available.
SandraDodd.com/help

Sweetness in teens

Once upon a time, in 2006...

A story slightly involving allowance, but a snapshot of how kids who aren't desperate for money can act:

Two of Marty's friends were going to pick him up to go run around, but they ended up staying here. Then another friend came over to see all my kids. Then a friend of Kirby's from work came over. I hadn't met her before. She was nice. So my three (14, 17, 19) plus four more (17-21) were all having a great time laughing and looking at stuff on Kirby's computer and around our house, and Marty's big Lego Viking village, and so forth.

They decided to go out for ice cream and then to see "Over the Hedge." I asked Holly if she needed money, and she didn't. (She saves her allowance up.) Every other person there has a job. Outside of Kirby possibly having an interest in the girl from work, there were no couples. Two of those kids do have steady others, but didn't bring them over. So it was four teenaged girls, four teenaged boys, no romantic tension (unless Kirby and new-girl; didn't see any).

And here's the big success part. They asked Keith if he wanted to go. I didn't know they had, when Marty came and asked me if I wanted to go. So they would have taken me, or Keith, or both of us, with them.

We separately thanked them and declined and found out later they had asked us both. Pretty sweet!

We didn't "teach them" to invite their parents to the movies. One advantage of our not going was that then they could fit into the big van and didn't have to take two cars.

SandraDodd.com/math/allowance
photo by Sandra Dodd,
whose kids are not teens anymore, but are still sweet,
of a movie theater in Austin, unrelated except for the movie part

Happiness is helpful

Katy Jennings, when her son was twelve, about not requiring chores:

Another thing that was recommended that has really helped me is finding Joy in cleaning up.... Choosing to do housework with a positive attitude really helped me, my outlook, my happiness—and more importantly helped Richard be happier. And when he is happier, he helps me more🙂, though really wasn't my goal.

When the kitchen is clean, Richard is much more likely to rinse his plate, but if the sink is full of dishes, he just adds it to the pile. One trick for the kitchen that works in my house, keep a sink full of soapy water, it is ok if it gets cold. Dishes used throughout the day can just be tossed into the soapy water. Then when it is time to do the dishes they have already soaked and the job is easy. If the water gets too nasty that is ok too, make a new batch of soapy water or just use dishsoap on a cloth to wash then as you take them out of the water. I love paper plates too. I am kind of a tree hugger, so that used to bother me. Not anymore though. My son is more important. Also I live in a desert and doing dishes takes water that we need to conserve! 🙂

Katy Jennings
Alamogordo, New Mexico

SandraDodd.com/chores/shift
photo by Sandra Dodd

Active participants

"Unschooling is not child-led or child-directed learning — that makes it sound like the parent should just be a 'follower.' Not so — parents are active participants and part of the job of an unschooling parent is to keep the child in mind and to fill his/her life with just the right amount of interesting new experience, chances to repeat experiences, down time, and so on."

—Pam Sorooshian

SandraDodd.com/nest—Building an Unschooling Nest
photo by Nina Haley

Courtesy, and teens

I posted this story in 2006 when it was six years old.
Now it is eleven years old. Our family looked like this, when the story was new:



A story slightly involving allowance, but a snapshot of how kids who aren't desperate for money can act:

Two of Marty's friends were going to pick him up to go run around, but they ended up staying here. Then another friend came over to see all my kids. Then a friend of Kirby's from work came over. I hadn't met her before. She was nice. So my three (14, 17, 19) plus four more (17-21) were all having a great time laughing and looking at stuff on Kirby's computer and around our house, and Marty's big Lego Viking village, and so forth.

They decided to go out for ice cream and then to see "Over the Hedge." I asked Holly if she needed money, and she didn't. (She saves her allowance up.) Every other person there has a job. Outside of Kirby possibly having an interest in the girl from work, there were no couples. Two of those kids do have steady others, but didn't bring them over. So it was four teenaged girls, four teenaged boys, no romantic tension (unless Kirby and new-girl; didn't see any).

And here's the big success part. They asked Keith if he wanted to go. I didn't know they had, when Marty came and asked me if I wanted to go. So they would have taken me, or Keith, or both of us, with them.

We separately thanked them and declined and found out later they had asked us both. Pretty sweet!

We didn't "teach them" to invite their parents to the movies. One advantage of our not going was that then they could fit into the big van and didn't have to take two cars.

The van they went in:



SandraDodd.com/math/allowance
Sweetness in Teens
The photos are links.

Learning and living joyfully

When teens or young adults have chosen to have a job without desperation for money, and when they are accustomed to learning all the time and living joyfully, they are a different sort of employee.

SandraDodd.com/jobs/bigbook
photo by Sandra Dodd

Protect the peace

One of my main principles has been that it's my job to protect the peace of each of my children in his or her own home insofar as I can. I'm not just here to protect them from outsiders, axe-murderers and boogie-men of whatever real or imagined sort, but from each other as well.

SandraDodd.com/peace/fightingcomments
photo by Sandra Dodd

Negotiations, commerce (not bribery)

I think we were discussing offering an older child money to read to a younger child, or to play with them at their level; kind of an occasional in-house mother's helper situation. Someone asked about bribery; my response follows. —Sandra

How do you go about it without it feeling like/being bribery? I'm guessing it is in attitude and wording, but I can't imagine a way to word it that it doesn't sound like bribery to me...? Thanks for the idea!

How do places of business get people to go to work without "bribery"?
How do you get an auto dealer to give you a car without bribery?

If someone's supposed to do something anyway and holds out on you until you pay them or give them something, that's a bribe. If something is not someone's job or someone's property and they negotiate for an exchange, that's commerce, not bribery.

There are some truisms that are spoken without real examination and I think the very vague rules against bribery of children are right up top there.

SandraDodd.com/bribery
photo by Cátia Maciel

It must be learned and lived

Unschooling is not something people can wind up and let loose. It has to be learned and lived. And it has to be learned on the job, as it goes, so you can't wait until you're great at it to start.

—Sandra Dodd
Too boring to unschool?
at Always Learning

Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.
photo by Sandra Dodd, of museum robots

Voices in your head

In your head, you have some repeating-loop messages. Some are telling you you're doing a good job, but I bet some of them are not. Some are telling you that you have no choice, but you do.

SandraDodd.com/phrases
Scanner image by Sandra Dodd (it's a link)