the Purpose of Cake

A mom once asked a long question, ending with:

The cleaning up of making a cake is just part of the whole process of cake making—isn't it? Am I making any sense?

Joyce Fetteroll responded:

Yes, your question makes perfect sense.

It might help you see it more clearly if you ask yourself what your goal is. Is the goal to have a clean kitchen or the experience of making a cake? If the goal is a clean kitchen, then it's better not to have children! 😉

There was more, and it's good. Sweet and messy.

SandraDodd.com/chores/cake
photo by Sandra Dodd, of little Devyn's cupcake art
___

King of the Monsters

Sandra Dodd to Deb Lewis:

If I could describe all your writing in just a few words, it might be "Peace, humor and scary monsters." Dylan's life has involved a lot of Godzilla and that ilk. Scooby Doo and Godzilla.

Deb Lewis:

Yes, a lot of Godzilla, beginning when he was very little. And then any movie with a monster, or any book about monsters. And then all kinds of horror and science fiction. Godzilla was the gateway monster, though, and it started with a movie marathon on television. I couldn’t have guessed then, when he was three years old, that he would find a lifetime of happiness in horror! And I didn’t know then that his love of monster movies would lead to learning to read and write, finding authors, making connections to other cultures, (and more movies and authors) and connections to music, theater, poetry, folklore, art, history... It turned out to be this rich and wonderful experience he might have missed, and I might never have understood if I’d said no to TV, or to Godzilla, King of the Monsters.

Before Dylan was reading or writing really well, he’d meticulously copy the titles and dates of movies he wanted, and request them from interlibrary loan. All that writing, and all the time spent watching movies with subtitles helped him read and write better. I remember the feeling of joy and wonder, mixed with some sadness and loss when he didn’t need me to read movie subtitles to him anymore. I learned so much about learning.

There's Even MORE at
Montana to Italy via Godzilla
(an interview with Deb Lewis)
photo by Deb Lewis

Yes, and more yes

Colleen Prieto wrote, in response to someone having written "We are adhering to a culture of self sufficiency":

All three of us (my husband, me, and my son) do things for each other throughout the day, asked and unasked, that we're all certainly capable of doing for ourselves. . . . .

Saying yes, and more yes, and more yes can indeed lead to wonderful things.

The part I left out is very sweet, and is here:
Serving Others as a Gift
photo by Shannon McClendon

People, growing as people

Tina B/canuckgal wrote in 2008:

We continue to come to this life bit by bit as well. I think for us it is an extension of attachment parenting philosophy, about what we believe about children and childhood and about our children as PEOPLE, not them as little beings who fall short and need to be prepped for adulthood while totally ignoring or negating the living and learning they are doing TODAY....
. . . .
I love how the whole philosophy (not just the "academic" aspect) has made ME grow as a mom and person, and I hate to think where our family would be had we not come across it. Yes, I have had my bad days and doubts, but certainly I would not be as happy as I am now.

—Tina B/canuckgal

SandraDodd.com/gettingit
photo by Roya Dedeaux

Wonderful, easier, more peaceful

Alex Polikowsky wrote (following an artsy rant, linked below):

It takes time to get it. I have been reading and applying unschooling in my home for almost 8 years and I am still getting it.

It takes time to deschool. Most of us have a minimum of 13 years of schooling and some way more. Ask questions and just sit on the answers, re-read them, think about them, read them again, try them, wait a while and watch!

So all this to say that if someone comes to unschooling thinking that it will be just sitting there while the kids fend for themselves and that it is a piece of cake think again!

That is not to say it is not wonderful and, yes, easier and more peaceful, but not in the way many think it is.

—Alex Polikosky, 2012
(her kids are at university now)

https://sandradodd.com/misconceptions
photo by Brie Jontry

Affecting emotions

Examine reflexes

Sylvia Woodman wrote:

I think people confuse "Say yes more" with "Never say no."

When you are moving toward unschooling it's important for parents to examine why they are saying "No" to their children. Is it for a good and real reason or is the parent saying no reflexively? I think it's an important mental exercise in creative thinking to examine "Why am I saying no?" There may actually be a good and real reason to say no. Maybe with a little creativity the answer can be yes. Maybe it can be "yes, but not now." Or "Yes, but not here."

To say "yes" reflexively is no more mindful than saying "no" thoughtlessly.

—Sylvia Woodman
(original)

SandraDodd.com/joyce/yes
photo by Sandra Dodd

Philosophy and priority

Questions come up about how a parent can help teens do things they want to do. Here is an example from when I had two teens and one nearly a teen.

It has to do with philosophy and priority. I think the way I discuss whether one of my teens can go to a movie or not under the circumstances of the moment is as true and deep a life-building experience as when he asks me what squares and square roots are about.

2024 note: Truer and deeper than facts that can be discovered anywhere, anytime. Looking back, I see its importance more clearly.

One day we had from seven to seventeen kids here, in various combinations and not all at once. It was a madhouse. Seven was my low count because there are still seven here at the moment. At one point two were gone and were coming back, one was half-expected (and did show up) and Marty wanted to go to the dollar movies to see "School of Rock" with a subset of the day's count. Holly didn't want to go; her guest from England did. Kirby half wanted to go; the girls coming back wanted to see him particularly. So the discussion with Marty involved me helping him review the schedule, the logistics of which and how many cars, did he have cash, could he ask Kirby to stay, could we offer another trip to that theater the next day for those who'd missed it today, etc. I could have said "yes" or "no" without detail, but it was important to me for it to be important to Marty to learn how to make those decisions. Lots of factors.

That's part of my personal style of radical unschooling.

Today: The day this is scheduled to go out, Keith and I will have three grandkids from 8:00 to 1:00, and then the other two at night. There are logistics involved. The oldest grandchild is being paid to come back and help at night. Drivers, food, activities, re-staging between... Same goals as in the 2003 story above—fun, peace, contentment.

From longer writing, third comment at
SandraDodd.com/unschool/radical
photo by Kim Jew Studios
in those days, but not that day

"Trying 'no limits'"

Someone wrote:

I see so many families trying 'no limits' and then…

I responded:

Two problems: "trying" and "no limits." If a kid knows the parent is only "trying" something, he will certainly take all he can get, desperately and in a frenzy.

"No limits" is not something any family should believe in, or promise their children The world has limits of all sorts. Parents don't need to add to that, but parents can't guarantee "no limits." They CAN give children lots of choices and options.

Gradual change would have helped.

Saying yes a thousand little times is better for everyone than one big confusing "Yes forever, don't care, OH WAIT! Take it back."

SandraDodd.com/cairns
photo by Sandra Dodd (in Albuquerque)

Say yes when you can

My kids are great at delayed gratification, all of them. They have saved money, earned money, bought small things, and large things, waited for friends to visit, waited for holidays and parties, and because they're busy and secure people, they could always find something to do. But they were also generally sure that as soon as it WAS possible, they would do it, or have it. That's because they had lived their lives with parents who were their partners and who helped them, rather than thwarted or frustrated them.

Some kids get to 18 and they're sick and tired of waiting, and they don't want to wait anymore for ANYthing. Some turn to drugs, drinking, partying, charge cards, driving too fast... When parents have a choice of saying yes or no, and they choose 'no' because they think it's good for their child, they are putting that pressure and tension in the bank to gain interest.

Say yes when you can, especially if it's about something that will help your child learn. If you can't decide, think "Will he be happy and learn? Will this help with unschooling?"

2013, Sandra
of kids who were in their early- to mid-20s then

SandraDodd.com/no
photo by Holly Dodd
of herself wearing a top from the 1970s that I handed down to her, with an orchid plant rescued from a trash can

Being safe, being trusted

Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

If your default answer is no—by the *kids'* standards even if *you* feel you say yes a lot—then they're likely to 1) see the world in terms of impossibilities rather than possibilities or 2) ask someone else who may be less trustworthy.

—Joyce Fetteroll

Be their trusted partner.


SandraDodd.com/chores/appreciation
photo by Rosie Moon

Easier to get to yes

The other day Emma, 6, asked me a series of questions to which all of the answers were yes. She stopped and stared at my head for a bit and said "Yeah, ya sure got a lot of yesses in there."

I loved that.

I used to have a lot of "I can't" in there. Saying yes more often has helped me be more clear about the difference between can't, won't, and don't want to. When that all becomes clear, yesses are easier to get to.

—Amy Kidwell

SandraDodd.com/yes
photo by Molly Mulvaney

Accepting support

Paula wrote:

I WANTED to be a thoughtful, respectful parent. .... I wanted to say yes as much as possible, and respect and enjoy my children for who they are, not who I thought they should be.

—Paula F.

There is more of how Paula got to that resolution, at "Support" can be a problem.

SandraDodd.com/support/thoughts
photo by Roya Dedeaux

Discovering resources

Meredith wrote:

Sometimes the money question is about fears of not having enough to make home rich and joyful - can we really afford to unschool? Is it expensive? And the answer is yes and no. It takes a lot of resources, but money is just one kind of resource. Time is another—and a big one. If you don't have time to spend with your kids, then unschooling might not be a good choice. Creativity is a useful resource, especially if you're short on money and/or time - you can get by with less creativity if you have more money, though. Adaptability is one of the most vital resources for unschooling - if you don't adapt well to new circumstances, then all the time, money and creativity in the world won't help if you have a child who can't meet all your expectations.

—Meredith Novak

SandraDodd.com/unschoolingcost
photo by Holly Dodd

Why not?

Creativity and courage are useful for unschooling, and they are traits that an unschooling environment nurtures, in both kids and adults.

Consider why something is or should be. The range of useful and acceptable options is very likely wider than you first thought. What is the purpose? What's the principle?

If you're tempted to say no, out of habit or convenience, first think "why not?" If you don't have an honest, good reason to say no, perhaps it's time to say something like...

Let's try it, or
I'll help you, or
Okay, yes.

SandraDodd.com/principles/
photo by Sandra Dodd
(chain guards and other details, India)

Respond thoughtfully

To say "yes" reflexively is no more mindful than saying "no" thoughtlessly.

—Sylvia Woodman

Mindful and Thoughtful
photo by Gail Higgins

When rules don't work

Jenny Cyphers, on principles over rules:

One of the kids that live near us, said rather astonished, "you don't have any rules do you?" I looked at him and said, "yes we do, they are, play nicely and behave kindly." He didn't think those were rules, and they aren't really, but that's where it all seems to come down to. A rule of no hitting, could be summed up nicely with "be nice," because clearly hitting isn't nice. Being nice covers it all.

A kid could easily not break the rule of "no hitting" by pinching or kicking, and completely get away with it, and feel pretty darn good about getting away with being mean without getting in trouble. If the idea is to "be nice," pinching or kicking won't work.

—Jenny Cyphers

SandraDodd.com/principles/
photo by Cathy Koetsier

Saying "Yes" Again

A mom named Sara came back after lapsing toward "no," and wrote:

I'm a huge believer in fresh starts, and I decided to just hit my personal reset button and start fresh. .... I have begun with something very simple, which is saying yes instead of no. . . . .

I took a deep breath and started over, with YES. I kept a little list of all the things the kids asked for (they didn't see me doing this). Can we have some jellybeans? Yes.

Can we watch a movie? Yes

Could you get me a pickle and a napkin in a bowl, and can I eat it on the couch? Yes. (Shushing the mom-voice in my head that wanted to say we NEVER eat on the couch, you know that. I just said 'sure' and got the pickle, and then another when she asked for a second one.)

Can we play a computer game? Yes.

Later I was looking at my list and I thought, wow, I'd have loved to have a day like that when I was a kid. Jellybeans and a movie and pickles and computer games.

—Sara, 2007

SandraDodd.com/yesagain
photo by Sandra Dodd

Lots of yes

It's sweeter to say yes several times a day, with the option to still say "not yet," than to have one big "anytime, anywhere" that then might need to be amended.

[But she's asking even though I've told her she doesn't need to ask.]

There are times it won't be a good idea. Say yes, sweetly, when she asks, instead of correcting her and making promises you might not be able to keep.


Too Far, Too Fast
photo by Roya Dedeaux

Permission and approval

Some advice on going gradually:

Just like getting lots of gifts instead of one big one, if you say "sure," "okay," "yes" to lots of requests for watching a movie late or having cake for breakfast or them playing another half hour on the swings and you can just read a book in the car nearby, then they get TONS of yes, and permission, and approval.

If you throw your hands up and say "Whatever," that's a disturbing moment of mom seeming not to care instead of mom seeming the provider of an assortment of joyous approvals.

SandraDodd.com/freedom/to
photo by Cátia Maciel