Manipulation vs. persuasion

In a 2005 discussion, someone asked:

Where is the line drawn? (Because of the inherent power difference between parents and children, when is a parent persuading instead of manipulating?)

I responded:

It's different every time in each dyad. Some parents manipulate all the time. It is neither ideal nor illegal. Some parents never manipulate nor even learn to persuade, to the point that they are what is called "walked on" and marginalized by even their own family.

In the middle is a balance point and that will be different in different circumstances.

If I see one of my boys getting emotionally involved with a girl who seems desperately needy to have a baby to get away from her family, that would call for more commentary and discouragement than if he's liking a girl who seems calm and thoughtful and balanced. To declare in advance a rule about how I will be in future unseen circumstances would be to turn off my own freedom and judgment.

Living by principles and not by rules, as I try to do, having a rule about what is and what isn't violates my principles.

Sandra

literal meaning of "manipulation"
photo by Rippy Dusseldorp

Higher level considerations

Someone wrote:

I just really wish I could be confident that I'm making the right choices for my children.

I responded:

Nobody can be confident that she's making "the right choices."

The best you can do is to gain courage in your own judgment and in making good choices given what you knew and what was available to you at the time. There aren't single "right" answers to life situations. There are ranges of options, and better and worse answers.

It helps to always consider an option or two when you make any decision. It's not a choice if you didn't consider two or more paths and then choose the one that seemed best. Gradually as you do gain strength of conviction and the ease of experience, the choices will come more easily and be of higher level considerations.

SandraDodd.com/betterchoice
photo by Cátia Maciel

Deciding what's good

People can say "no judgment" but people cannot think without making judgments. People can't make any choices without deciding moment to moment what's good, what's better, what's a bad choice.

SandraDodd.com/judgment
photo by Colleen Prieto

Judging others "bad"

In a discussion of something else, regarding an actress, someone wrote:

I admit I love her on [a series she was on]. But oh, how I wish she was anti-circumcision, too.

That was WAY off topic.
I/Sandra reponded:

It might be worth considering not wanting any one person to provide everything for any other one person. By that I mean if you like something she does and benefit from watching a show she's on (or whatever it might be) it seems wrong to criticize her for not agreeing with everything.

It happens to me. People want me to support/do/be EVERYthing they themselves like/do/want, and complain if I am not vegan or protest-marching or religious or petitioning to change homeschooling laws in some particular country in another hemisphere. Maybe it should be enough that they like Just Add Light and Stir, without then telling me what I should think and do (and write and spend time on) about other issues.

Maybe there's something natural about it, but it's not logical or fair.

SandraDodd.com/judgment
photo by Gail Higgins

A variety of good things

Without choices, they can't make choices. Without choices they can't make good choices OR bad choices. In too many people's minds, "good" is eating what parents say when parents say (where and how and why parents say). That doesn't promote thought, self awareness, good judgment or any other good thing.

Food Choices (and lots of them)
SandraDodd.com/eating/idea
photo by Sandra Dodd, in Pune, in India

Peace and love and food

Without choices, they can't make choices. Without choices they can't make good choices OR bad choices. In too many people's minds, "good" is eating what parents say when parents say (where and how and why parents say). That doesn't promote thought, self awareness, good judgment or any other good thing.

Food is for health and sustenance. Eating with other people can be a social situation, ranging (on the good end) from ceremonial to obligatory to courtesy. There's no sense making it hostile or punitive.

---

Food Choices (and lots of them)
SandraDodd.com/eating/idea
photo by Sarah S.

Don't always finish what you start

The only things that should be finished are those things that seem worthwhile to do. . . . .
Wanting your children to learn to ignore their own judgment in favor of following a rule is not beneficial to them or to you. It will not help them learn.

Thoughts about finishing what you start
photo by Sandra Dodd

Avoid punishments because...

No matter how "peaceful" the punishment might be, it still involves power and judgment and has a loser. A winner and a loser. Ultimately several losers, because the parents lose out on the chance to undo it, and the grandchildren might suffer similar losses of choice, freedom and happiness if the children aren't shown a better way.

Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
photo by Lisa Jonick
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Myths and alarm clocks

A myth and boogie-man:

"If children are allowed sleep as late as they want, they'll never be able to get up and go to work."

I have three children (at this writing 16, 19 and 21), all of whom have had jobs, none of whom has failed to learn to use an alarm clock and good judgment, none of whom has ever been let go from a job, all of whom have been free to sleep or get up for 16 years or more (depending). If there were no other refutation of the myth above than this, it would be sufficient.

It's also worth noting that none of those jobs have been "regular hours." Shifts have started as early as 6:30 a.m. and ended as late as 3:00 a.m. Good thing they were well prepared by years of irregular sleep!

SandraDodd.com/myths
That was written ten years ago, so my "children" this month are are 26, 28 and 31.
They have had even MORE jobs with odd hours, and sometimes "normal" hours.
photo by Janine Davies

Unfolding, unfurling

[To the frequently voiced complaint that the word "unschooling" seems negative, this was written years ago and has not been bested:]

"Lots of people make this point, but I never see the negation as negative in a value-judgment sense when I use the word—to me unschooling is as positive as unchaining, unbinding, unleashing, unfolding, unfurling, unlimiting....

"All mean freedom and growth and vast possibilities to me."

—Zann Carter

Definitions of Unschooling
photo by Rose Sorooshian

Good judgment?

Without "judgment," how on earth can someone "use good judgment"?

SandraDodd.com/judgment
photo by Sandra Dodd, of King Alfred, in Wantage
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Avoid punishments because...

No matter how "peaceful" the punishment might be, it still involves power and judgment and has a loser. A winner and a loser. Ultimately several losers, because the parents lose out on the chance to undo it, and the grandchildren might suffer similar losses of choice, freedom and happiness if the children aren't shown a better way.

Becoming the Parent You Want to Be
photo by Lisa Jonick

Don't always finish what you start

The only things that should be finished are those things that seem worthwhile to do. . . . .
Wanting your children to learn to ignore their own judgment in favor of following a rule is not beneficial to them or to you. It will not help them learn.

Thoughts about finishing what you start
photo by Sandra Dodd

Good judgment

Without "judgment," how on earth can someone "use good judgment"?

SandraDodd.com/chats/comparisons
photo by Sandra Dodd

Children reach for food

Because of La Leche League and natural weaning, and the idea that children will reach for food when they want some, so you don't have to schedule and spoon it into them, it was easy for me to see the smallest seedling-root beginnings of how our culture creates the eating disorders they bemoan. Letting kids decide what THEY think is good and bad, instead of labelling things good and bad in advance for them, allows a child to think spinach is wonderful but donuts are kinda yucky.

Without choices, they can't make choices. Without choices they can't make good choices OR bad choices. In too many people's minds, "good" is eating what parents say when parents say (where and how and why parents say). That doesn't promote thought, self awareness, good judgment or any other good thing.

Food is for health and sustenance. Eating with other people can be a social situation, ranging (on the good end) from ceremonial to obligatory to courtesy. There's no sense making it hostile or punitive.

SandraDodd.com/foodproblems
photo by Sandra Dodd

"Finish what you start." NO, wait...

Once someone wrote in an unschooling discussion:

"I just have one concern. I want my children to finish what they start."

I responded:

If you start a book and decide you don't like it, will you finish it?
If you start eating a dozen donuts, and after you're not in the mood for donuts anymore, will you finish the dozen?
If you start an evening out with a guy and he irritates or frightens you, will you stay for five more hours to finish what you started?
If you put a DVD in and it turns out to be Kevin Costner and you don't like Kevin Costner, will you finish it anyway?
The only things that should be finished
are those things that seem worthwhile to do.
When I'm reading a book, I decide by the moment whether to keep reading or to stop.

Even writing this post, I could easily click out of it and not finish, or I could finish it and decide not to post it. Choices, choices, choices.

Wanting your children to learn to ignore their own judgment in favor of following a rule is not beneficial to them or to you. It will not help them learn.


SandraDodd.com/finishwhatyoustart
photo by Sandra Dodd
of a fat black widow in the back yard (and its shadow)

Food Freedoms

Because of La Leche League and natural weaning, and the idea that children will reach for food when they want some, so you don't have to schedule and spoon it into them, it was easy for me to see the smallest seedling-root beginnings of how our culture creates the eating disorders they bemoan. Letting kids decide what THEY think is good and bad, instead of labelling things good and bad in advance for them, allows a child to think spinach is wonderful but donuts are kinda yucky.

Without choices, they can't make choices. Without choices they can't make good choices OR bad choices. In too many people's minds, "good" is eating what parents say when parents say (where and how and why parents say). That doesn't promote thought, self awareness, good judgment or any other good thing.

SandraDodd.com/eating/idea
Image by Holly and Sandra