And then what?

A dad new to a discussion wrote:
Kids who spend more time watching TV (both with and without parent and siblings present) spend less time interacting with family members.

Joyce Fetteroll responded:

In unschooling families?

And what criteria did the use to define "interacting" for the study?

My daughter and I have done a great deal of interacting as a direct result of TV. It's tied into her other interests in story telling. Without TV she wouldn't have the huge collection of comics she's written. Without TV we wouldn't have discovered manga. Without TV we wouldn't being going to Anime conventions together (I even dress up).

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/joyce/logic
image and card by Joyce Fetteroll

A kind of P.S.—what Joyce wrote in May 2015, when she shared the image of a card she wrote for unschoolers, on top of a scene from "Healer":

We're off to Chicago to see Kat. 🙂

One of the most connecting valuable things I did was get involved in Kat's interests. Manga, anime, drawing, writing, music. We still talk about writing and music especially. Carl connected through running, football and other sports. Of course we'll be seeing the Cubs and he and Kat will be going to the White Sox and then the hockey game so they're still connecting. 🙂

Learning by leaps and bounds

From a learning standpoint, when babies are carried they see more, they hear and smell more. If they are given things to touch and taste besides just a few baby toys left in the corner of a crib or playpen, they will learn by leaps and bounds. They will spend less time crying and more time being in the real world.

The parents will know the child better, and the child will know the parents better. They will be building a partnership based on trust.

SandraDodd.com/attachment
photo by Sandra Dodd, at a fabric store

Comfortable, interesting and thoughtful

Karen James wrote:

I was a little nervous about what to expect when Ethan entered the teen years. My own teen years were kind of difficult. I have just loved being a part of Ethan's life at every stage of development, and this one is no exception. As we walked side by side at the art gallery the other day (him noticeably taller than me now!), I felt more than ever like I was with a good friend. Our interactions were comfortable and the conversation was interesting and thoughtful. I hope he felt that way too. I'm feeling more confident. It's like when he took his first steps. I knew that meant things were going to change, but I was excited to see where his next steps would lead.

—Karen James, 2016

SandraDodd.com/teens/
photo by Doug James, the dad, I'm guessing

One little choice at a time

Jen Keefe wrote:

I abandoned the stuff I thought we "had" to do and disrupted our peace, and filled it with stuff that made us happy. This was all one little choice, in the moment, at a time.

The healing and effect this has had on both my husband and me is immeasurable. Being the parent to my kids that I needed when I was younger has wrapped my own self in a comfort I never got to have before.

—Jen Keefe

SandraDodd.com/being/allin
photo by Cátia Maciel

Quirks

Lyle Perry wrote:

Quirks are what makes us individuals. What a boring world it would be without quirks. Everyone would know exactly how everyone else likes things because we would all like them the same. (What a horrible thought.)

The cool thing about unschoolers is that we get the chance to revel in our quirks, rather than hide them in fear of ridicule. And for the quirks that really do bother us, we have the opportunity to learn to deal with them without the pressures of society bearing down on us.

We have the gift of truly being ourselves.

— Lyle Perry

Conversations With Sandra Dodd (archived)
(sixth post down)
photo by Rosie Moon

Peaceful rough-and-tumble

Connie Coyle wrote:

Something that I have seen with both gentle parenting and attachment parenting is that those ideas have been used as a means of coercion and control. No matter how you disguise it, some things are still controlling.

As with anything, I think that how a person defines certain things can have a big impact on whether or not it might interfere with unschooling. The closest example I can think of is the notion of gentle parenting getting in the way of a mom being rough and tumble and wild. If a kid is super physical and needs to get really rough, then a parent might shy away from that because it is not perceived as gentle. If my memory is correct, I think I have seen that brought up in conversations before.

I also thought of the page about peace on Sandra's site: Great Big Noisy Peace [SandraDodd.com/peace/noisy]

Gentle can be screwed up the same way as peaceful in that a person can gently control you and manipulate you.

—Connie Coyle

SandraDodd.com/otherideas
(Gentle parenting advice as a hindrance?)
photo by Christine Milne

Relationships, living and learning

Coming to unschooling from a rules-based point of view -- as most parents do -- it's natural to try to shape what's being written into rules.

But unschooling is:

Great relationships
Joyful living and learning

Some of the principles that support that are:

Trust
Respect
Kindness
Compassion
Helpfulness

Having someone help you get what you want is joyful. Even for adults. 🙂

—Joyce Fetteroll
2010 original topic
(Joyce wrote more, halfway down.)

Five Steps to Unschooling
photo by Alex Polikowsky

Sometimes yes

Sometimes saying yes is being patient a little longer than the schedule says you should. Sometimes being kind is not rushing toward or away from something. Sometimes magic, and learning, and memories, come from a patient, gentle, unspoken "yes."

SandraDodd.com/yesagain
photo by Sandra Dodd

Being fully with a child

For unschooling to work, parents need to stop looking into the future and live more in the moment with their real child. BEING with a child is being where the child is, emotionally and spiritually and physically and musically and artistically. Seeing where the child *is* rather than seeing a thousand or even a dozen places she is not.

SandraDodd.com/being/with
photo by Chrissy Florence

The Discovery Moment

Carol Brown (Cally) once wrote:

We have been homeschooling for almost 18 years, and one of my favourite memories is of a day shortly after I removed my 5yo from school, where he had spent a very long seven weeks. We were going home from a friend's, accompanied by her daughter, also five, who was going to stay the night. We passed a school, where arborists were trimming some very large trees, hanging from ropes and chainsawing branches. We stopped and watched for about 3/4 hour.

This was when I truly started to realise what homeschooling was all about.

It was about learning all the time; it wasn't about learning being restricted to certain hours (all the school kids had missed out as they were long gone!)

It was about living with my kids and enabling them to learn - by stopping and watching, rather than going home to get dinner which was already going to be late.

It wasn't about curriculum or age-appropriate learning objectives, it was about observing and living life.

I was interested, they were interested, and when we went home, and had our very late dinner, it was wonderful to hear them excitedly telling dh all about it.

It's about living and learning joyfully.

—Cally

SandraDodd.com/gettingit
photo by Cally Brown
(different trees)

Part of being human

Schuyler Waynforth wrote:

Unschooling is at its core an understanding that learning is a part of being human. It is a recognition that school undermines that by saying that learning needs to be organised, structured and handed down. School argues that certain things are so hard to learn that they must be taught. If you unschool partway you are mixing up your messages. If you unschool math and science and reading but structure nutrition and media studies you are arguing that while a rich and engaging life may make the three "r"s obvious they won't help you to deal with the difficult studies of food and televisions and video games and computers.

—Schuyler Waynforth

SandraDodd.com/unschool/marginal
photo by Sarah S.

Really being a partner

Someone made a side comment earlier: "I hadn't thought about the difference between 'treating someone as a partner' and really being their partner from one's core. Acting one way from a set of rules vs. working on oneself to be a better parent/partner/supporter."

That's what I meant. I'm sure I would feel nervous if someone I thought of as a friend said she was treating me as a friend. 🙂

But I do know that some people don't love words as much as I do, and aren't as analytical about words. I can watch athletes and think very little about the subtleties of what they're doing. Music, not so much. That I perceive in more detail.

SandraDodd.com/partners/examined
photo by Cecilie Conrad

Defending cartoons

I know my opinions won't match other peoples and that's fine. What I can defend isn't what other people can defend.

When there's someone who can defend NOTHING, though, who is so cynical or shut down that all movies seem lame and all cartoons seem mindless and all music is boring and all museums are irritating, I think there's a problem with that person's attitude and perceptions, rather than their stated opinion being damning evidence against movies, cartoons, music and museums.

SandraDodd.com/t/cartoons
In Defense of Cartoons
Image from a Warner Brothers Cartoon (click here)
Both characters voiced by Mel Blanc—singing and all.

Don't be arbitrary

Someone wrote that the best thing she had learned from me in unschooling discussions was "Don't be arbitrary."

The writing below came in my response to that.

---

Consistency isn't magic. If a parent isn't using judgment in individual instances, but is just going by rules, it's not better than being arbitrary.

There SHOULD be times when kids can be louder and wilder, and times when parents are especially generous, and times when everyone should chill, and it's not a good time to spend money.

"It depends" is a good answer. Decision making based on the reality of the moment is more valuable than "consistency" or arbitrary decisions.

SandraDodd.com/depends
photo by Nina Haley

Sitting and being with

Let us assume (with my house as an example, at least) that hyperactivity runs in families and that like attracts like. With extra energy, people can do two things at once. If one of those things is pattern-building and physical, that whole verbal part of the brain is still available. Working on patterns in silence allows one’s mind to whirl and twirl.

Doing something non-verbal while talking has a special advantage: Silence is not awkward. Changing the subject temporarily to talk about the blocks or paints or puzzle is not really changing the subject. Fear and foreboding won’t cause people to leave the conversation or cry. It’s possible to pause, think, breathe, stall, collect oneself and come back to the topic in a minute.

I have a near-teen here who sometimes needs to be with me a while before he gets to what he needs to say. That puzzle didn’t really need to be worked, but perhaps that child needed to sit with that parent.

From "Leaning on a Truck," 1999
SandraDodd.com/truck
(with bonus paragraph breaks)
photo by Christine Milne

What helps?

In a sweet little side-exchange about unschooling working, and a child being 17, I wrote:

Parental hopes and worries don't help.

Parental support and smiles and snacks still help, even when the kids are on the cusp of being adults. 🙂

---

Best wishes to all with teen and young-adult unschoolers. Being their whole selves on their own paths doesn't change with the calendar. Most of you know that already; my correspondent did, too.

SandraDodd.com/teen/
photo by Sarah S.

"Try not to learn"

I was once asked:

Since unschooling is a lifestyle, how can a family wanting to embrace these ideals begin the process? What encouragement would you offer?

Part of my 1998 response:

Play. Joke. Sing. Instead of turning inward and looking for the answer within the family, within the self, turn it all inside out. Get out of the house. Go somewhere you've never been, even a city park you're unfamiliar with, or a construction site, or a different grocery store. Try just being calm and happy together. For some families, that's simple. For others it's a frightening thought.

Try not to learn. Don't try to learn. Those two aren't the same thing but they're close enough for beginners. If you see something *educational* don't say a word. Practice letting exciting opportunities go by, or at least letting the kids get the first word about something interesting you're all seeing.

---

The "Try not to learn" idea inspired Learn Nothing Day ten years afterwards (and 18 years ago, now).

SandraDodd.com/interview
photo by Holly Dodd

in French

What's the rush?

I saw an advertisement on the side of some webpage, aimed at me. "Homeschooling," I saw out the corner of my eye. It asked me whether I didn't want to make sure my child was ahead.

"Ahead" of what? Ahead of himself? That's considered a bad thing. "Don't get ahead of yourself," people say.

"Ahead" of other people? What's the rush?

When the traffic is slow on the freeway, sometimes someone will zoom along the shoulder and try to squeeze in. Why? It's not helpful. It's not polite. It's not safe.

My children are grown. They grew slowly, safely, politely, and I've always tried to be helpful. They weren't ahead. They were right where they were, all day, every day. There they still are, where they're used to being. They are themselves, here and now.

SandraDodd.com/being
photo by Sandra Dodd

Limits? Focus elsewhere.

Carol Brown, responding to the comment "Not being able to read can limit them":

They are also limited by their lack of height—but I'm not going to stretch them on the rack each night, to try and fix that.🙂 They are limited by not being able to drive—but I wouldn't let a 6 yo drive my car to the library! Reading is just one of many things they are limited by. I have found it is better to focus on the things they can do, or can nearly do, and help where they want help, rather than try to make / bribe / tempt / cajole / whatever / them into trying to learn things they aren't ready for. And many kids, especially boys, but some girls too, simply aren't ready for reading until later.

The main problem for a late reader is the negative input from others. Homeschool kids can be protected from a lot of that—providing the parents aren't the ones exuding the negativity!

—Carol Brown

SandraDodd.com/r/carolbrown
photo by Rippy Dusseldorp/Ripandeep Saran
(her boy, not one of Carol's)

Service and nurturing

Service and nurturing can make parents better humans.

Not being served, or being nurtured, but being of service and being nurturing to others.

SandraDodd.com/service
photo by Chrissy Florence