Stomping around (in a good way)

Carol/sognokids wrote of recovering from snobishness about TV, concluding with:

We had cable reinstalled the next day, and we never looked back. We don't watch a lot of TV, but when we do, we do it together. We have laughed and cried together as we have watched, and we have wondered and marveled. Television has been a wonderful learning experience for me. It taught me to loosen up, and to appreciate those wonderful moments when I cocoon with my family. And when I watch my husband and son stomping around the house like Godzilla as they destroy Tokyo, I know that I am standing on holy ground.

—Carol/sognokids

The rest is worth reading, and there's a story by Deb Lewis, too:
SandraDodd.com/t/godzilla
photo borrowed from 60 Years of Godzilla
variant post:
High horse on holy ground

School learning vs. real learning

School learning is like being told how to assemble the dragon piece of the jigsaw, which pieces to put where and in what order. And then the cat. And then the book. And then the bird. And you must do it in that order the way they tell you because they're teaching you how to assemble jigsaw puzzles and that can't be left to chance. Unfortunately by the time you're done with the process you're so sick of jigsaw puzzles you have no interest in doing them yourself and never see how the dragon and cat connect and don't even care.

Real learning is doing that billion piece jigsaw puzzles however you please. Or running off to watch TV. Or chase the dog. 🙂

—Joyce Fetteroll

A million-piece puzzle
photo by Gail Higgins
___

Better expectations

Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

What gets in the way of so many new unschooling parents is unreasonable expectations. They think kids must learn to read, spell, do math by a certain age, do chores, do what they're told, not eat more sugar than Mom thinks is right, bathe and sleep when Mom wants... They think unschooling parents have a magical way of getting kids to do those.

Some parent expectations come from how they were parented. Some come from school. Some come from friends and other parents. Some are accepted as truths just because the message is ubiquitous.

For unschooling to flourish, parents need to look directly at their kids. What does *this* child need? What is *this* child reaching for? If a resource helps a parent let go of unreasonable expectations and look directly at their child, then that's supportive of creating a learning environment. If a resource helps a parent understand their child better, that's a good thing *if* it removed a barrier to directly looking at their child. It's not a good thing if it puts a new filter between parent and child. (It's funny how parents who fear TV see addiction in their children. When they let go of their fear, they see engagement.)

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/waldorf
photo by Sarah Peshek

Calm and happy priorities

Deb Lewis wrote:

If you take care of your house happily, even if you don't ever make any real progress or feel it's getting really clean, if you look after things calmly and happily your kids will be more likely to participate in the process. If you're grumping around growling about things being out of control, how are they ever supposed to feel they could manage it? If you can't handle it, how could they?

My son doesn't have any chores but he helps if I ask for help and he does some things on his own just because his life is more convenient if he does so. I get up earlier than he does so I clean then. If he's busy with things and doesn't need me I do a little more then. In the evening if he's playing with his dad or watching TV and there is still something I didn't get to, I try to do it. Cleaning never comes before fun though, so lots of things wait until the next day.

—Deb Lewis
when her son was young

SandraDodd.com/chores/joy
photo by Tara Joe Farrell

No road blocks

Kelli Traaseth wrote:

When I started unschooling, I thought it was just an educational approach. But as we went along in our lives, so many other things popped up. If they were learning as they were playing, as I knew they were, how could I limit that? How could I say, "time to go to bed now?" Or "time to shut the TV off now" or "shut the video game down now". Unschooling is such a continuum. If I did those above things, I would see them as huge road blocks in my child's learning. I want their learning to be a big freeway, things coming, things going, no road blocks.

—Kelli Traaseth
2004, 8th post or so down

SandraDodd.com/nest
photo by Cally Brown
(not a freeway, but pretend...)

---

At the old, preserved forum (link below Kelli's name), you can go backward and forward a bit by changing the page number at the bottom left of the page. (In case you want to, in case you go there...)

Artifacts

I have seen toys, in museums, just like things I played with as a child in the 1950s and 60s, and that my children played with in the 1980s and 90s.

History is happening all around and through us.


Seeing things from the past can trigger stories that might never have been told without the presence of those artifacts. I missed the days of radio dramas and serials. By the time I was listening to radio, it was all music. The stories had moved to the TV. All of my older relatives had radio stories—of war news, comedy routines, inspiring speeches and of mystery stories presented in several voices, and with sound effects.

We still want stories, news, humor and inspiration, but the sources change, and will change some more.

Antiques elsewhere here
photo by Sandra Dodd

---

I wrote this four days ago (what's above). Three days ago, I started listening to So, Anyway...: A Memoir by John Cleese (read by the author, who is best known as a member of Monty Python). He has talked about radio shows four times in eight chapters, telling stories of his childhood memories, and of radio producers who seemed to think, when television was new, that TV would not supplant radio programs.

Knowing this post was ready to go made those stories seem like magical coincidence to me. Jung called those coincidences "synchronicity."

Accepting help (and cake)

Deb Lewis wrote:

I always get in trouble with analogies, but I'm going to try one here. If I wanted to make a cake, and had never baked or cooked before, a cake recipe that just said "do whatever seems best to you, use your imagination" probably wouldn't be that helpful. If my friend, who always had lovely cakes (devil's food?) had given me this recipe, I would have to assume cake just didn't work for my family.

It would have been much more helpful to have an ingredients list and a plan for putting them together.

Ok, kids are not cakes, and maybe there's no ingredients list for unschooling, but I would hope, before I pour a bottle of vinegar in my batter, someone who knows about cakes would stop me. I would hope, before I add a text book or take away TV, someone who knows about unschooling would stop me.

—Deb Lewis
(original, on Always Learning)

SandraDodd.com/witness
photo (and cake) by Sandra Dodd,
when this blog was ten years old

Ideas, terminology, and attitudes

If someone really does want to unschool, it's going to take looking at her own ideas, terminology, and attitudes really closely, to weed out that "what will screw it up" set.

SandraDodd.com/screwitup

The original quote is here:
Archive: "...on TV & junk food"
photo by Cátia Maciel

Freeing and joyful

When people come here and their messages are like parroted little recordings of things their teachers said, that their grandparents and in-laws say, that they read in an anti-TV book, it seems they need to peel off all the layers of recitation and people-pleasing and try to feel what they feel and decide what's freeing and joyful instead of what will shush their internal voices.

That's not easy.

SandraDodd.com/voices
photo by Denaire Nixon

Sometime I go EEEEEk.

EEEEEk.
What gets me more than the casual acceptance and recommendation of arbitrary limitations is the characterization of allowing children choices as "plonking a 3, 4, 5, 10 year old in front of the television/google."

Can you imagine ANYone "plonking" a ten year old in front of google? And what? Demanding he look something up? But I have seen kids that young have a BLAST with google and other search functions, about games, or YouTube, or NetFlix.

If they can look up game hints at ten, they will be able to look up building codes or disease treatments or various translations of Bible passages on their own anytime thereafter, given resources. Practicing on something that might seem "loose, easy and unnecessary" can *BE* what is needed for them to be competent, functional workers when they're older. And I won't say "when they're grown," because my kids were competent functional workers when they were mid-teens, every single one of them.

So when people who haven't had a child who is mid-teens disparages my knowledge in light of their paranoid theories, sometimes I go EEEEEk.

Sandra
2011

Plonking a child down in front of the television
is where I found it, but the original is here:
on Always Learning,
wherein the rant is all one paragraph.

photo by Sandra Dodd, of a granddaughter playing a game, a husband reading the news, and the TV was playing "Pupstruction" for another grandchild not appearing in that photo

Happy and interested

Deb Lewis wrote:

If your daughter doesn't want to leave something interesting to go to the table to eat, take food to her. Sit with her and eat together.

That's the same kind of sharing you could do at a table. Food eaten in front of the TV or computer with a happy mom who is interested in you is much better than food shared in grudging silence and anger.

Wouldn't you be grateful to a friend who brought you food if you were in the middle of something important? I'm always grateful when my husband brings home a pizza or Chinese food when I'm having a really busy day.

—Deb Lewis

SandraDodd.com/deblewis
photo by a realtor, of Janine's former garden
(they've moved)

TV [iPad (internet)]

There's a lot to be learned on TV and from watching TV. If your trust stops short of the TV, it's not much trust yet.

Trusting your heart and trusting your kids and trusting how learning works will all enlarge the range of things you see as learning situations, until the time when you don't see things except in terms of what can be learned.

Then TV won't be a problem.

Those are my thoughts.

—Sandra Dodd, 2001

Unschooling with the TV in the house
photo by Tara Joe Farrell

Helping them share

The problem I see with measured turns is that the quality of game play is compromised. If someone sees the clock and that's when they have to stop, they won't play as thoughtfully. They're less likely to look around at the art or appreciate the music. If they're starting to read, they're less likely to take a moment to look at the text and see if they can tell what it says.

The benefits of game play will not come to full fruition if kids' time is measured that way, and they're not learning to share.

If they only have an hour, they will take ALL of that hour, just as kids whose TV time is limited will.

It they can play as long as they want to, they might play for five or ten minutes and be done.

SandraDodd.com/sharing
photo by Sarah S.

The value of input

When someone wrote, "We don't value TV, we live our values by not having one," I responded:

I value input, information and learning. I've seen immeasurable learning in my kids and others from things they have seen in movies, on TV, in online videos, heard on the radio, read in magazines, picked up in conversations with others, heard in public presentations or from tour guides or from books. To eliminate some part of that input out of fear would have made my children's world smaller.

SandraDodd.com/connections/
photo by Karen James

Value kids as kids

Meredith wrote:

Generally speaking, kids are Busy people. Its good to see that and value what they are doing. When we don't, its easy to slip into resenting them for "just goofing off" while we grown ups are busy doing the "important" stuff. An important aspect of radical unschooling is valuing kids as kids, not adults-in-training, and so valuing kid-stuff. Playing Green Dinosaur smashes Legoland, watching tv, daydreaming, all are just as important as cleaning the kitchen.

—Meredith Novak

SandraDodd.com/priorities
photo by Sandra Dodd

Candy, TV, books and broccoli

Jo Isaac wrote:

While Kai and I were watching Inside Out yesterday, they had a part where broccoli is in the 'disgust' part of Riley's emotions. Kai loves broccoli - it's one of his favourite foods and the first thing he eats if it's on a plate. He said that parents make broccoli disgusting in kids heads because they force them (the kids) to eat it.

In the same way we can make broccoli seem 'disgusting' by forcing it down our kids throats, we can make TV seem more 'attractive' by setting it up as a limited resource with apparently magical powers of 'distraction'.

By giving broccoli the same status as candy, and TV the same status as books and board games, children are free to make the choices that are best for them, and learn the way they learn best.

—Jo Isaac
(original, on facebook)

SandraDodd.com/joisaac
photo by Sarah S.

So logically...

Deb Lewis wrote:

Does TV create violence, really? Maybe guns create violence. Knives. Baseball bats. Hammers. Axes, shovels, saws? Rope? Dynamite? Sharp sticks, rocks? Maybe it's language causes violence because most killers spoke. Maybe it's books. Clothing? Day time night time wind rain snow trees birds frogs.



For lots of kids, even the bad guys on TV are nicer than the real life crazy people they live and go to school with.

—Deb Lewis

SandraDodd.com/t/violence
photo by Tara Joe Farrell
The page also has this quote:

"There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?"

—Dick Cavett

Healthier and happier

Not only are our food choices healthier but since I have stopped controlling sleep and chores and T.V. watching and video games our family is healthier and happier. It didn't happen overnight but it's been like this long enough that I can't imagine our lives any other way.

—Gail H.
years ago

That's the end of something longer, at
SandraDodd.com/eating/sweets
"True Tales of Kids Turning Down Sweets"
image by Jen Keefe

Special-occasion food

You can play with your food and eat it too.

Related for food images to
How Unschooled Kids Watch TV
and maybe to Easy Food Art
photo by Sarah S.

Lifelong learning from TV and video

Respect your children's interests and viewing. Think of your own childhood memories.

Calling something crap has never given anyone joy, but Bob the Builder has.

Remember
photo by Meredith Dew