Philosophy and priority

Questions come up about how a parent can help teens do things they want to do. Here is an example from when I had two teens and one nearly a teen.

It has to do with philosophy and priority. I think the way I discuss whether one of my teens can go to a movie or not under the circumstances of the moment is as true and deep a life-building experience as when he asks me what squares and square roots are about.

2024 note: Truer and deeper than facts that can be discovered anywhere, anytime. Looking back, I see its importance more clearly.

One day we had from seven to seventeen kids here, in various combinations and not all at once. It was a madhouse. Seven was my low count because there are still seven here at the moment. At one point two were gone and were coming back, one was half-expected (and did show up) and Marty wanted to go to the dollar movies to see "School of Rock" with a subset of the day's count. Holly didn't want to go; her guest from England did. Kirby half wanted to go; the girls coming back wanted to see him particularly. So the discussion with Marty involved me helping him review the schedule, the logistics of which and how many cars, did he have cash, could he ask Kirby to stay, could we offer another trip to that theater the next day for those who'd missed it today, etc. I could have said "yes" or "no" without detail, but it was important to me for it to be important to Marty to learn how to make those decisions. Lots of factors.

That's part of my personal style of radical unschooling.

Today: The day this is scheduled to go out, Keith and I will have three grandkids from 8:00 to 1:00, and then the other two at night. There are logistics involved. The oldest grandchild is being paid to come back and help at night. Drivers, food, activities, re-staging between... Same goals as in the 2003 story above—fun, peace, contentment.

From longer writing, third comment at
SandraDodd.com/unschool/radical
photo by Kim Jew Studios
in those days, but not that day

Sugar-coated words

Life's too short to sugar-coat everything, I think. . . . . I suppose I'll just keep being honest until I get tired of it or I die. I never was one to coo and stroke and blow sunshine into dark places.

Sandra Dodd
November 22, 2004
second-to-last comment

SandraDodd.com/integrity
photo by Tara Joe Farrell

Try joy.

Perhaps happiness shouldn't be the primary goal. Try joy.
....
Enjoyment—that word itself is hardly used. Enjoyment is seen nearly as a sin for some people. "You're not here to have fun, you're here to work." Why can't work bring joy? Any tiny moment can be enjoyed: the feel of warm running water when you wash your hands; light and shadow on the floor; pictures in the clouds; the feel of an old book. If you see an old friend, that can bring pure, tingly joy for which there are no words.

SandraDodd.com/joy
photo by Theresa Larson

Learning, piled up

Think about everything you’ve ever learned. Make a list if you want. Count changing the oil in your truck, or in your deep fryer. Count using a calculator or a sewing machine. Count bike riding and bird watching. Count belching at will and spinning with your eyes closed if you want to. Think about what was fun to learn and what you learned outside of school.

SandraDodd.com/deschooling
photo by Gail Higgins
___

Choose and be and do

Don't worry about what kids choose to do. Make sure they have lots of choices, and don't discriminate between what you think might be career path and what might "only" be joyful activity and self-expression, or what might seem to be nothing more than relaxation or escapism. Let them choose and be and do.

SandraDodd.com/watching
photo by Sarah Peshek

Learning the OTHER things

Sylvia Toyama wrote, in 2004:

This week Andy has figured out money, and it's happened in spurts all week... . . . .
He has learned all this through his own observations. He figured it on his own, when it made sense to him, because it was now important to him to know. And he has the pleasure of knowing he did it without being 'taught' by someone else. He's learned that he's capable and smart — something you just can't get from a worksheet with some arcane facts memorized.

And that's how they reach the point of 'wanting to learn' — when it matters to them, not when it matters to you or anyone else.

—Sylvia Toyama

You can read the details I left out
at SandraDodd.com/math/money
photo by Cátia Maciel

Learning by watching

While you're understanding your children's interests, and getting over any initial embarrassment about your own, remember to have compassion and understanding toward other adults in your life, and what they are learning by watching.

SandraDodd.com/watching
Coconut art by Ishan, from Sri Lanka, whose "fiverr" name was funnymad.

If you can't see a video, Plan B: Coconut (on youtube)

Principles sustain; rules constrain

Ben Lovejoy wrote:

Question the rules, and question the principles as well. But once you and your family have chosen the principles important to the family, you'll find that no one will want to change or break or get around them like they will rules.

Principles sustain a life; rules will constrain that very same life.

—Ben Lovejoy

SandraDodd.com/benrules
photo by Sandra Dodd
__

When is the test?

[As a kid in school...]
I asked fewer questions when I heard "that won't be on the test" for the dozenth time.

Then when I was teaching, too many kids asked me "Will this be on the test?"

That's when I came up with the test being the rest of their lives, and whether they'll get jokes, or be interesting people, and with "Everything counts."


Everything Counts (other posts going there)

image by Bill Watterson
If you're on facebook, you can click that image to see the original discussion. Other unschooling moms had thoughts on it, too.

Where the learning is

Even if you obtain the coolest tools or toys unschoolers could recommend, natural learning isn't in the toys, it's in the relationship between the adult and child—in the freedom and peace and time to explore and to think.

JoyfullyRejoycing.com/how-unschooling-works
(The quote isn't there, but similar ideas are!)
photo by Janine Davies

A calmer, kinder mother

Below are my comments (Sandra's). They didn't go to the author, because I wasn't in on the discussion where this was first posted. They're for people who come by here ["here" being the page linked at the bottom].

"Am I going to hate, and have to fight, Harry Potter the way I have Pokemon?"

HATE? "Have to"? "Fight"? Eewwww... There is more violence in that question than in all of Pokemon's "battles." And seriously... fighting Harry Potter!? He can kick Voldemort's ass. If only the mom had spent all that energy looking at Harry Potter, or Pokemon, WITH her daughter, instead of being resentful and jealous and spiteful, their relationship might soar.

SandraDodd.com/addiction
photo by Rippy Dusseldorp

Learning comes from play

"Real learning comes from play. And it stays longer and means more."

—Kelly/mina

SandraDodd.com/game/ccg
photo by Julie D

Playing, and happiness

Lyle Perry wrote:

Playing is fun. Playing makes a person happy. Why on earth would anyone want to move from something that makes them happy?

Play has been given a bad rap in our society. It's looked upon as a waste of time. It's not productive enough. And anything that isn't productive (in society's eyes) is a waste of life.

It's all bunk. What is more important in life than "producing" happiness?

—Lyle Perry

SandraDodd.com/lyleperry
photo by Sandra Dodd

Imagine supporting and accepting

Jenny Cyphers wrote:

I really can't imagine villifying anything in their lives that they might find very exciting. Well, I can imagine it, so I guess that's why I don't do it.

—Jenny Cyphers

SandraDodd.com/negativity
photo by Susanna Waters
___

Approach "better."

Incremental improvement
Approaching perfection, no. Perfection is subjective.
Approach "better." . . . .

The tool to use to move toward "better" is an awareness of choice.
And practice making choices.
Learning to make choices.
Choices

"Happiness Inside and Out"
photo by Brie Jontry

Loving what you love

Jen Keefe wrote:

Getting to know my kids and subsequently all the amazingly cool "nerdy" things I never would have learned about otherwise has expanded my world. Cynicism always shrunk it.
. . . .

Ditching my cynicism was an awesome lesson. It has let me meet the actual coolest people, try things I used to think were really dumb, and jump all in looking like a total weirdo to stuff I geek out about—even when other people are watching.

Best of all though—I am no longer discouraging anyone from loving what they love. So in turn, I am not discouraging myself from loving what I love.

—Jen Keefe

SandraDodd.com/cynicism
photo by Janelle Jamieson

Seeing it and being it

"Seeing wonderfulness in our kids is part of how we get wonderfulness in our kids."

—Betsy / ecsamhill
(fifth comment down)

"Give them power and respect, and they become respected and powerful."

—Sandra Dodd
(more of that)

"I've helped my kids by going toward what they wanted, and been generous, and they've been the same toward me. Sweet."

—Jill Parmer
Generosity begets generosity.

SandraDodd.com/being
photo by Roya Dedeaux

No road blocks

Kelli Traaseth wrote:

When I started unschooling, I thought it was just an educational approach. But as we went along in our lives, so many other things popped up. If they were learning as they were playing, as I knew they were, how could I limit that? How could I say, "time to go to bed now?" Or "time to shut the TV off now" or "shut the video game down now". Unschooling is such a continuum. If I did those above things, I would see them as huge road blocks in my child's learning. I want their learning to be a big freeway, things coming, things going, no road blocks.

—Kelli Traaseth
2004, 8th post or so down

SandraDodd.com/nest
photo by Cally Brown
(not a freeway, but pretend...)

---

At the old, preserved forum (link below Kelli's name), you can go backward and forward a bit by changing the page number at the bottom left of the page. (In case you want to, in case you go there...)

Interests and activities

Joyce Fetteroll, part of a response about kids missing out on friendships and other kids:

Homeschooled kids get the opportunity to form friendships with people of all ages based on interests rather than birthyears. There's homeschooling support groups, scouts, art and dance and martial arts classes, 4H, church groups, neighborhood kids and so on. It can be more difficult depending on the town's services and the parent's willingness to take advantage of opportunities, but some homeschooling parents end up finding their kids social lives *too* active!

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/joyce/friends
photo by Cátia Maciel

Seeing and knowing what it is

I think all unschoolers should read as many definitions as they can instead of depending on one definition.

On the other hand, I think that just because there is not a single view, that doesn't mean all views are equal. Just because there is no definitive description of unschooing that doesn't mean everything in the whole world is equally unschooling.

And I don't think there are (as some say) as many different ways to unschool as there are unschooling families. I think there ARE common and shared practices and beliefs among the successful unschooling families.

Definitions of Unschooling

What is Unschooling?

Several Definitions of Unschooling

photo by Christine Milne

Happy to see the day

When people insist that "all unschooling is" is just homeschooling without a curriculum or without lessons, I don't disagree. They should take it out and put it on billboards. Lobby to get it into the dictionary. Whatever. But when families come to ask how they can make unschooling work, it does no good to say "Just don't have a curriculum. See ya!" It takes layers of understanding, it takes recovery from school, and a desire to have a relationship with a child in which learning is flowing and easy. It takes working to create an atmosphere in which children and parents wake up happy to see the day.

—Sandra Dodd, in 2004
fourth post on this legacy page

---

SORRY the link above didn't work in e-mail; I've restored it, I hope!

---

SandraDodd.com/nest
photo by Vlad Gurdiga

Part of life? Fact.

Lyle Perry, as part a description of unschooling:

Facts are all around us, all the time. The difference between school and unschooling is that the facts are not always stated as facts, they are simply a part of life. The facts are not simply "known", they are felt and lived in. I think most unschoolers know as many, or more, facts as schooled kids, they just don't know them AS facts. They know them as part of life.

—Lyle Perry

unschooling.info archive, bottom
photo by Rosie Moon

Twenty days of learning

Ghoj pagh jaj (Klingon, maybe, for "Learn Nothing Day") is in one score of days.

O le aso e leai se mea afia 第一国际无会日 O Dia de Nao Aprender Nada Leer Niets Dag El Dia de No Aprender Nada Oggi non si impara Erster Internationaler Welt-nichtslerntag La Journée Sans Rien Apprendre

Learn now, because it's going to end on July 24.

Score! and counting sheep in prehistoric languages
(with some good comments, there)

photos by Sandra Dodd, with continuing gratitude to Ester Siroky for taking me and Joyce to see some Highland cattle in 2013
__ __

A busy, happy swirl

I didn’t expect them to learn so much without me.

Anyone who is involved in natural learning for any length of time can find it difficult to summarize what children have learned academically, because each child’s knowledge comes from such varied sources and is fit together uniquely.

At first, though, I thought I wouldn’t miss a single thing. Then I totally missed them learning Roman numerals, which they learned from the names of a series of MegaMan video games.


I was jealous of that “MegaMan” guy, at first. I felt cheated out of the fun of seeing their eyes light up. But in thinking about that feeling, I realized that if life is a busy, happy swirl, they will learn. Learning is guaranteed. The range and content will vary, but the learning will happen.

—Sandra in 2014, originally
and there's a comment there

SandraDodd.com/unexpectedarticle
__

You don't "have to"

Every time "have to" comes up in writing, speech or thought, back up two words and see it as a choice, and not a have to.

You don't "have to" do that, but your ability to make choices and to live a life of abundant gratitude will be hampered if you don't.

SandraDodd.com/haveto
photo by Marty Dodd
__

Experiences, not lessons

Experience is the only true teacher. Give your kids experiences, not lessons. Give them opportunities to follow their hearts until they exhaust their curiosity. The longer you do schoolish things, the longer it will take for them to find a path of their own because they will constantly be looking for approval for their choices from without instead of from within. Expose them to cool and interesting people whenever you can.
. . . .
Relax. Live life. Breathe. Enjoy. Find yourself. Love your children.

—Jennifer / Jen Fox
from the last comment, here

Jennifer was writing about deschooling, so... SandraDodd.com/deschooling
photo by Julie D

Roses and different directions

People need to start and go, but they don't have to race at breakneck speed or never look back. "Going" sometimes just means going one step and smelling the roses! Sometimes the most important steps are those where you're still standing in the very same place, but looking a different direction!

Sandra Dodd, July 2003 discussion
photo by Sandra Dodd

Solid and reliable

Integrity is a strong wholeness. The fabric of the being of a thing can't be broken. A bucket with one hole in it is lacking integrity. It's not a good bucket. A frayed rope lacks integrity. No matter how long or strong the rest of the rope is, that frayed part keeps it from being a good rope.. . . .

It's exactly why every person who hopes to have a positive influence on any other person needs to figure out how to find and maintain as much integrity as possible.

SandraDodd.com/integrity
photo by Sandra Dodd
___

I'm not guessing.

I'm confident. I'm not guessing unschooling can work, I know. I've also seen how it can fail, through my correspondence and discussions with so many other homeschooling families. I'm not hoping that kids can still get a job without fifteen years of practice bedtimes; I know they can. (And they would've been "practicing" for the wrong shift anyway.) I don't conjecture that kids can learn to read without being taught, I know. It's happened at my house, in three people's lives.

SandraDodd.com/confidence
photo by Sandra Dodd
P.S.
Just because it *can* work doesn't mean that a family can't fail. If you're going to unschool, do it well. Find your own confidence. Help is available.
SandraDodd.com/help

Learning

Learning is about connections. And others can't make those connections for you. You bring learning in; it is not inserted.

Some people learn better by seeing, watching, touching, than by being talked to anyway. Some want to see diagrams in a book, or maps. Some want to hear about it from others who have done it, seen it, know it.

When unschoolers provide as much different input as they can, each child can learn in his own way.

Principles of Learning (chat transcript)
photo by Cátia Maciel

Relax into the next step

Leah Rose wrote:

I have come to see that it helps peace and learning to notice when we are clinging or tightening around an identity, an idea, or even a hope. I think that's why breathing and baby steps are such useful suggestions for new unschoolers. Both help us to stay in the moment, to relax right where we are rather than leaping ahead or getting mired in "shoulds." They help us cultivate soft, open ground upon which we can rest with joy, and know enough confidence to take the next step.

—Leah Rose

---

Note from Sandra:
That quote is the bottom of longer writing by Leah, on how she moved from rules to "no rules" which wasn't the best direction, and found a better path in living by principles.

---

Leah's writing is about the sixth quote down, at
SandraDodd.com/rules
photo by Karen James

Scenery is where you see it.

We seek out interesting “scenic routes” in real and figurative ways.


SandraDodd.com/why
photo by Marty Dodd, in rural Nevada, thinking "Fallout"
___

Good and sweet

Look at what looks good and sweet, and seek out more of that.

—Jill Parmer

SandraDodd.com/positivity

Jill quote from the bottom of a chat on "Schooling"
photo by Rippy Dusseldorp

Providing for needs

Sometimes when a child is recovering from paucity, he hoards.

Sometimes when a parent has been changeable and inconsistent, a child can seem clingy and grasping when attention/supplies/input are available, thinking the famine will return at any moment.

Thinking of attachment parenting, infants and toddlers, a baby needs as much milk as he needs, and when he's done he'll turn away. A toddler needs as much holding and carrying as he needs, and when he's done, he will wiggle down and take off.

SandraDodd.com/generosity
photo by Sandra Dodd

(original writing)

Unschooling's "educational supplies"

Unschooling's "educational supplies" are often toys, or things that kids in school would not want or need, because they have it at school, or because it's not "age appropriate." School is processing kids through an assembly line, and there is pressure to accept and then abandon various interests. Unschooling has a whole different operating system.

SandraDodd.com/screwitup
photo by Roya Dedeaux

Connecting and learning

Kelly Schultz, at the end of a longer account of learning from Barbie

Everywhere we go, we meet women who have loved their Barbies, young babysitting-age girls, grandmas with collector editions, women at the toy store commenting how they still love to get their Barbies out. Barbie-lovers are everywhere! Who knows when this shared interest will help them connect with someone down the road?

Who would have imagined - design, construction, dramatic narrative, social skills, a little bit of history mixed in - it's really a wonderful learning experience!

—Kelly Shultz

SandraDodd.com/barbielearning
photo by Karen James
___

Hale and whole

Looking at what a child (or oneself) CAN do well is better (in time, emotion, confidence, relationships) than finding why he's off, or faulty. Help your child feel hale and whole.

SandraDodd.com/normal
photo by... someone with Cátia Maciel's camera maybe
(photo sent by Cátia Maciel)

...never say "having screentime"

If an adult is using a television set, or a laptop computer, or a smartphone, and somebody asks them what they are doing they will say "watching the game" or "reading on Wikipedia" or "texting my friend." They will never say "having screentime."

—Virginia Warren

SandraDodd.com/screentime/not
photo by Janine Davies

Pets

Many unschoolers have reported changed feelings about pets, and successes in extending newfound principles to animal friends and companions.

SandraDodd.com/pets
photo by Sandra Dodd, of a stile in England
for humans and dogs

(Officially, humans over and dogs through, though I'm sure young children love going through. This was not farmland.)