Learning with and from kids

from a set of questions going around in 2009:

Question:

What ways have you found to continue your own learning? What kinds of things have you gotten interested in since having kids?

Sandra Dodd's response:

My kids have introduced me to music, movies, games and humor I wouldn't have known otherwise. It's been wonderful. Kirby moved nearly two years ago, but he still sends me recommendations for things to see and hear. I've met lots of unschoolers and their children, and corresponded with 20 times as many; from them I've learned more and more about unschooling.

SandraDodd.com/learning
photo by Janine Davies
(or a camera in a theatre lobby)

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I tagged it "costumes, but it was a board with cutouts for them to stick their faces in, so... not sure how to tag it. I first learned about the musical "Cats" from Roxana Sorooshian, and then Holly Dodd, different aspects.

Learning, input—living there

a mom wrote:
Having the television on all day is not something I want and I live here too.

Sandra Dodd's response:

We don't have the television on all day.

You live there too, but if your priority is your children's learning, then limiting input is going to make that more difficult.

Other unschoolers responded, too, in that discussion:
SandraDodd.com/bookworship
photo by Jen

Sorting through examples

An online friend, in response to a photo of my family, when I was a teen (me in the middle with stripes):

I'm looking at that pretty young girl and thinking "does she have any idea just how many lives she is going to touch for the better?"

I responded:

There are people in that photo who said and did things, before that, and after that, that became part of my motivation and direction. There were bad examples, and good examples. And not just them, but other relatives, friends, friends' parents, teachers, strangers, authors.

Everyone can, should, sort through the bad examples and good examples around them and move choice by choice toward whatever their own images of "better" might be.

That's all. 🙂

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On Facebook, for those with access, with explanations and commentary from ten years back, 2014

For those without facebook: SandraDodd.com/better

I don't know who took the photo; sorry.
We were in Roby, Texas, probably 1968.

History around us

Question:

But suppose I have a block about, say, world history; if I let my child lead, and she never thinks to think about world history, and I never bring it up because it bores me to tears, might she not be missing out on something she might like?

My response:

Movies, historical novels, biographies, costumes, historical recipes, museums—it couldn't be that ALL those things would bore a parent to tears. Textbooks bore nearly EVERYONE to tears.

SandraDodd.com/barrageQ&A
photo by Hema Bharadwaj

Pretty great

My favourite response of Ethan's to many questions that are geared to have one right answer is "It depends." I used to think (because of my own schooling), "What does it depend on? The answer is ____. Period."

Now, because Ethan has proven to me so many times that is really *does* depend, my own mind hardly searches for that one "right" answer any longer. I love the expansion of the many possibilities! It's so much more fun to think about more than one answer, and so much less limiting to live in a world with more than one right way.

It took me a long time to see that. Ethan has never seen it any other way. How great is that!?

—Karen James
(original)

SandraDodd.com/betteranswers
photo by Marin Holmes

Purposes, on purpose

When we talk about making decisions within unschooling discussions, it's not something like "I made the decision to be an unschooler." It's small decisions in the moment, right before each action or response, about what to have for lunch, where and how and why. Consciously making choices
Knowing WHY you want to make lunch can make all the rest of it a series of mindful choices. (Unless the "why" is a thoughtless sort of "because the clock hands pointed up".) Choices in Parenting, Unschooling and the rest of Life

SandraDodd.com/purpose
photo by Brie Jontry

Making children smile

Joyce, in response to someone who wrote "I want to scream":

If you could choose between making your children smile and making them cry or be angry with you, which would you choose?

If you could choose to do something for someone who made you angry and cry or someone who thought you were the bee's knees who would you help?

—Joyce Fetteroll

She wrote more, of course... SandraDodd.com/chores/scream
photo by Jo Isaac

Negotiations, commerce (not bribery)

I think we were discussing offering an older child money to read to a younger child, or to play with them at their level; kind of an occasional in-house mother's helper situation. Someone asked about bribery; my response follows. —Sandra

How do you go about it without it feeling like/being bribery? I'm guessing it is in attitude and wording, but I can't imagine a way to word it that it doesn't sound like bribery to me...? Thanks for the idea!

How do places of business get people to go to work without "bribery"?
How do you get an auto dealer to give you a car without bribery?

If someone's supposed to do something anyway and holds out on you until you pay them or give them something, that's a bribe. If something is not someone's job or someone's property and they negotiate for an exchange, that's commerce, not bribery.

There are some truisms that are spoken without real examination and I think the very vague rules against bribery of children are right up top there.

SandraDodd.com/bribery
photo by Cátia Maciel

The bright light of what you know

In response to "I guess I'll feel my way?"
I wrote:

In the dark? Feel your way blindly?
How will you know which way to go?

Probably it would be better to gather ideas that will help with decision-making and then make decisions in the bright light of everything you know, and the way you would like to be.

SandraDodd.com/just
photo by Janine Davies
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Deeper layers of understanding

Lissa wrote, in response to Jenny C... (link below to more):

I know exactly what you mean. There's getting (intellectual understanding) and GETTING (putting ideas into practice). Sandra, your onion metaphor is apt. I am getting to deeper layers of understanding all the time. It's a very sweet and savory onion and it makes life taste delicious.

— Lissa in San Diego, mom of 5

SandraDodd.com/gettingit
photo by Sandra Dodd

Seeing people as people

Response to this question:

At what age did you begin providing regular social interactions with other children?

I will say "from birth" and then I will ask you to replace "other children" with "other people."

Tadaa!!!
Your problem is schoolish.
You're believing that five year old girls need to play with a dozen other five year old girls. If you turn 180 degrees away from the myth and fantasy of how many friends kids have at school, and look at the real world in which you plan to live, things will look different.

Find people to visit, find places to go where other people will be. Begin to see people as people, rather than as pre-schoolers or school-age, or second grade. Just practicing that will take you MUCH nearer to peace about interactions with other people.

SandraDodd.com/deschooling
photo by Roya Dedeaux

Hours and days of joyful time

Response to this:

I tend to err on the side of just spending time together.

Don't think of it as erring.

And don't think of it as "just" spending time together.

SPEND freely of copious hours and days of joyful time together.

Don't just spend time together.

SandraDodd.com/being
photo by Rosie Moon

Interests and activities

Joyce Fetteroll, part of a response about kids missing out on friendships and other kids:

Homeschooled kids get the opportunity to form friendships with people of all ages based on interests rather than birthyears. There's homeschooling support groups, scouts, art and dance and martial arts classes, 4H, church groups, neighborhood kids and so on. It can be more difficult depending on the town's services and the parent's willingness to take advantage of opportunities, but some homeschooling parents end up finding their kids social lives *too* active!

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/joyce/friends
photo by Cátia Maciel

Purposes and choices in the moment

When someone questioned "purpose," I responded:

I didn't say "live your live with a purpose," though. Not a singular overriding goal that would cause any other outcome to be failure. That's what some people mean when they say "a purpose," but I didn't say "a purpose." It makes a world of difference.

I was talking about individual situations, projects, days, ways to decide. Not about a whole life.

People do that with decisions, too, sometimes. When we talk about making decisions within unschooling discussions, it's not something like "I made the decision to be an unschooler." It's small decisions in the moment, right before each action or response, about what to have for lunch, where and how and why.

SandraDodd.com/choices
photo by Janine Davies, of a stile in England

"What about socialization?"

Sometimes when people ask “What about socialization?” I say "What do you mean?"

And I wait patiently for them to think of a response.

Usually the question is asked by rote, the same way adults ask stranger-children "Where do you go to school?" Most people just blink and stammer, because they don't even know what they meant when they asked it.



SandraDodd.com/socialization
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Rest, recovery, and plenty of time

Rippy Dusseldorp, for still-new unschoolers:

For your family, the most important thing now is to deschool. Avoid anything schoolish, unless your children really want to use those types of resources. This is their rest and recovery time from their years of schooling. It's important not to rush them and to give yourself plenty of time to deschool as well.

—Rippy Dusseldorp

slightly edited from SandraDodd.com/response
photo by Colleen Prieto

Describing unschooling

Rippy wrote:

If parents of school children ask, I usually say our homeschooling is pretty eclectic. I may give certain examples such as visiting interesting places, doing experiments, playing 'learning' games, reading stories, having conversations of events that happened in the past, talking about famous people, making things, hanging out with friends, etc. Sometimes I share with them a detailed description of an interesting day that we've had, especially if it has impressive signs of learning that they will recognize.

—Rippy Dusseldorp

SandraDodd.com/response
photo by Kelvin Dodd

Fun, connection, learning

In response to a question from a mother of four-year-old girls:

"What does unschooling look like at this age?"

Clare Kirkpatrick wrote:

It looks like it does at any age: fun and connection. Do what is fun for them. If you're also working on better connection with them, a closer relationship with them, you'll also start to learn what they may find fun that they don't yet know about. Also do what is fun for you. Learning to help yourself to do fun things will help you realise that your children's learning and richness of life will come from helping them to do things they find fun.

At the moment in my house, I am having fun thinking hard about unschooling. My husband and my 12 year old are having fun and connecting with each other by playing Call of Duty together. I have helped my 6 and 8 year olds by making some space for them to build a little home for their polly pocket dolls out of wooden blocks and they are now having fun working on that and playing together. My 10 year old is having fun watching Mako Mermaids on Netflix and occasionally turning round to watch her sister and dad playing and ask questions about the game. Actually, while I've been writing that, the six year old has now snuggled next to my 12 year old to join in the chat about the game. Connection and fun. And, therefore, learning.

—Clare Kirkpatrick

https://sandradodd.com/clare.html#fun
photo: selfie by Sven, the dad

Priorities among principles

In response to an inquiry about priorities among principles, and whether learning should come before safety, peace, kindness or a strong marriage:

For me, safety is big.

Peace doesn't conflict with learning; it aids it.

Kindness doesn't conflict with learning; it bolsters it.

Learning, peace and kindness make marriages better.

SandraDodd.com/priorities
photo by Karen James

Paleolithic unschooling?

Would you rather live in the stone age, or live now?

(Hint: You don't actually have a choice.)

Brie Jontry, responding to someone who said unschooling was the closest to paleolithic, and that unschooling has worked for countless generations:

Paleolithic families had Internet and Netflix and PS3s? Did they have park days and YouTube? Were their parents distinctly turning their backs on the dominant culture and letting them learn in ways that felt kinder and gentler? Were they, in many cases, living at significantly lower income levels so one parent could stay home, at least part-time?

Unschooling is nothing at all like paleolithic life.

Unschooling has worked for a generation or two, but it hasn't been working for countless generations. That kind of thinking might get you all bound up in confusion as your son gets older and more aware of the modern world, and it may hinder your own ability to define what it is your family is actually doing.

—Brie Jontry

Brie's response was longer, and a little scary (in good ways):
SandraDodd.com/reality
photo by Karen James