As kids deschool...

Kids who haven't been to school are different, but here is
Joyce Fetteroll's advice for helping kids deschool when needed:

The best thing you can do while they're deschooling is let them play. And help them play. Make play dates. Make sure they have things they enjoy playing with. *Be* with them. Find out why they enjoy something so much. When they feel free—rule of thumb is one month for each year they've been in school, starting from the time when you last pressured them to learn something—be more active about running things through their lives: movies, TV shows, books, places to go: ethnic restaurants, museums, monster truck pulls, walks in the woods, funky stores ....

Look for the delight in life and it will infect your kids. 😊 As long as it's *honest* interest and delight! If it's fake interest to get them to pay attention to something you think would be good for them, they're going to notice and avoid it. It's the tactic they've been awash in since kindergarten: "Learning is Fun!"

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/joyce/deschooling
photo by Cátia Maciel

Snakes and wild berries

When a science-minded kid loves to take the dog down by the river and look for wild berries and snakes, some parents say, "My kid just wants to play. He's not interested in learning. He'll never learn science just playing."

Each little experience, every idea, is helping your child build his internal model of the universe. He will not have the government-recommended blueprint for the internal model of the universe, which can look surprisingly like a school, and a political science class, a small flat map of the huge spherical world, a job with increasing vacations leading to retirement, and not a lot more.

SandraDodd.com/seeingit
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Be playful.

Question:

Could you give some examples of family games ?

Answer:

Don't look for "games." Look for play.

Looking first for games is like looking for school-lessons.

Play. Be playful.

SandraDodd.com/playing
photo by Sandra Dodd

Serious business continues

Play can be serious business. Playing is certainly the main way that very young children learn, until they go to school.

What if they don't go to school? What if the ages of five and six don't mark a life change, and the playing progresses along naturally?

Many people would have no idea how to answer that question. The idea that toddlers' play would naturally progress to other levels without interruption, without separation from families, and without professionals telling children when, where and how to play is foreign to most in our culture.

In one small corner, though, it's common knowledge. There are unschoolers whose children have not been to school and who have continued to play.

SandraDodd.com/playing
photo by Cátia Maciel

Sitting, playing, learning

Playing a video game is not violent. Playing a game is sitting on a couch with a remote control.

Shaming a kid who wants to sit on the couch with a remote control, or somehow
preventing him from playing, is closer to violence than a kid causing the
character he's controlling to shoot an imaginary weapon at some pixels.

SandraDodd.com/violence
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Odd combos

The connection between humor and learning is well known. Unexpected juxtaposition is the basis of a lot of humor, and even more learning.

It can be physical, musical, verbal, mathematical, but basically what it means is that unexpected combinations or outcomes can be funny. There are funny chemistry experiments, plays on words, math tricks, embarrassingly amusing stories from history, and there are parodies of famous pieces or styles of art and music.

SandraDodd.com/playing
photo by Sandra Dodd, one day at Goodwill
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Support learning!

Pam Sorooshian wrote:

It would be very useful if parents stop using the term "screen time." It is insulting and adversarial. It completely dismisses what your child is actually doing as if it doesn't matter at all. Playing a game is the same as watching a video. Watching one video is the same as watching any other video. What the child is actually doing is all lumped together as "screen time" as if what the child is really doing doesn't matter....

Change your approach. Instead of focusing on limiting it and explaining how it is bad, see it as a jumping-off point for all kinds of experiences and conversations! Unschooling is about supporting learning, not by limiting the child's access to what he/she loves, but by expanding a child's access to the world.

—Pam Sorooshian

SandraDodd.com/screentime
photo by Megan Valnes

Looking, where, and how

Karen James wrote:

When you look at your children, see *them*, not the ideas of peace, joy, success or failure. Notice what your children are engaged in. Join them when you can. If one of your children is cutting paper, quietly join in, even if only for a moment. When another child is playing Lego on the floor, get down there and put a few pieces together with her. One girl is drawing, do some doodles. One girl is playing Minecraft, notice what she's building. Ask her about it (if your question doesn't interrupt her). As you join your children you will begin to get a sense for what they enjoy. Build on what you learn about them.

There will be some conflict, and there will be times when you don't get it right. See those moments, learn from them, and then look toward where you hope to go. Whenever I'm driving on unfamiliar roads, I tend to look at the road right in front of the car. The twists and turns come up so quick, and I find that my grip on the wheel tightens and my heart races. I panic until I remember to look at the horizon. It's so remarkable how much more easy driving becomes when I take in a wider view of where I want to go. Take in a wide view of where you want to go, making little adjustments as necessary. It'll feel less frantic and less like you're at the mercy of every little bump or turn that suddenly appears. The ease and confidence that will gradually come will make for a smoother ride, for you and for those lovely little passengers you've been gifted to travel this journey with. 🙂

—Karen James
on "Always Learning"

SandraDodd.com/look
photo by Cally Brown

Determination, focus and interest

Hema Bharadwaj wrote:

I can't begin to say everything I feel about video games... from my beginning ambivalence / aversion / annoyance / fear / more fear, etc. all the way to today's complete acceptance of my child's love and devotion to figuring out a game, his determination, his focus, his interest, his ability to explain it, talk about it passionately, willingness to give Ravi and me tutorials/workshops on a game etc.

He is currently playing a game that is about a guy in school. And the classes need you to figure out games/words/math etc. Then you pass the game. I help him out with certain parts when he asks for it. Been very interesting to watch his intensity in figuring out those puzzles/tests that the school teachers are throwing out to this character. The character gets bullied and keeps getting detention. And Raghu is wondering why this is so. Leads to conversations about the way the video gamer designed the game.

—Hema Bharadwaj
2010

SandraDodd.com/game/benefits
photo by Penny Clarkson

Calm and happy priorities

Deb Lewis wrote:

If you take care of your house happily, even if you don't ever make any real progress or feel it's getting really clean, if you look after things calmly and happily your kids will be more likely to participate in the process. If you're grumping around growling about things being out of control, how are they ever supposed to feel they could manage it? If you can't handle it, how could they?

My son doesn't have any chores but he helps if I ask for help and he does some things on his own just because his life is more convenient if he does so. I get up earlier than he does so I clean then. If he's busy with things and doesn't need me I do a little more then. In the evening if he's playing with his dad or watching TV and there is still something I didn't get to, I try to do it. Cleaning never comes before fun though, so lots of things wait until the next day.

—Deb Lewis
when her son was young

SandraDodd.com/chores/joy
photo by Tara Joe Farrell

Not just "one thing"

Meredith Novak responded to a mom worried about a child only doing one thing:

It's important to note that he's Not doing One thing, he's doing several:

• playing Minecraft
• watching videos
• skyping
• reading
• writing

The fact that all those things seem to revolve around a single subject isn't any different than another child who wants pirate clothes, pirate stories, pirate movies, pirate pajamas, pirate sheets, and pirate themed food.

—Meredith

Minecraft is fifteen years old; there's a new video here:
SandraDodd.com/minecraft
photos by SarahScullin
of Minecraft-themed food
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Playing, and happiness

Lyle Perry wrote:

Playing is fun. Playing makes a person happy. Why on earth would anyone want to move from something that makes them happy?

Play has been given a bad rap in our society. It's looked upon as a waste of time. It's not productive enough. And anything that isn't productive (in society's eyes) is a waste of life.

It's all bunk. What is more important in life than "producing" happiness?

—Lyle Perry

SandraDodd.com/lyleperry
photo by Sandra Dodd

No road blocks

Kelli Traaseth wrote:

When I started unschooling, I thought it was just an educational approach. But as we went along in our lives, so many other things popped up. If they were learning as they were playing, as I knew they were, how could I limit that? How could I say, "time to go to bed now?" Or "time to shut the TV off now" or "shut the video game down now". Unschooling is such a continuum. If I did those above things, I would see them as huge road blocks in my child's learning. I want their learning to be a big freeway, things coming, things going, no road blocks.

—Kelli Traaseth
2004, 8th post or so down

SandraDodd.com/nest
photo by Cally Brown
(not a freeway, but pretend...)

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At the old, preserved forum (link below Kelli's name), you can go backward and forward a bit by changing the page number at the bottom left of the page. (In case you want to, in case you go there...)

Scattering to learn

Part of a 2004 description of our unschooling home, when three kids and their friends were here:

They come here and we’re working a puzzle or building something and they’ll get into that, too. It’s fun. We do things that are just fun. You can hardly walk by without picking it up and messing with it, too.

Sometimes, someone—my husband and one of the kids—will be doing something in one room and in the next room, some other friends are over and they are playing a video game and in another room or outside, another kid and somebody else are doing something else.

That also is the idea of the open classroom. Their ideal was not to be sitting at desks reading but to sit in a soft place, in a dark place, in a private place or wherever you wanted to, to read. So they tried to have interesting places where kids could get away from the other kids.


Sound file and transcript, of "Improving Unschooling" interview: SandraDodd.com/radiotranscript
photo by Destiny Dodd, of Kirby Dodd and their daughter, Kirby Dodd.

Looks like playing

Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

Real learning looks very different from schoolish learning. Real learning looks like playing. Even when it matches something kids do in school (learning the names of the different clouds for instance) it still looks more like goofing around because it stops as soon as their interest is satisfied. They don't push on like they're "supposed" to. No, what they do is revisit it when the feel the need to build on it and they draw on it (though not necessarily making it obvious to us) to help them understand more of the world. *Everything* connects to everything else.

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/joyce/jitters
photo by Cátia Maciel

Describing unschooling

Rippy wrote:

If parents of school children ask, I usually say our homeschooling is pretty eclectic. I may give certain examples such as visiting interesting places, doing experiments, playing 'learning' games, reading stories, having conversations of events that happened in the past, talking about famous people, making things, hanging out with friends, etc. Sometimes I share with them a detailed description of an interesting day that we've had, especially if it has impressive signs of learning that they will recognize.

—Rippy Dusseldorp

SandraDodd.com/response
photo by Kelvin Dodd

Fun, connection, learning

In response to a question from a mother of four-year-old girls:

"What does unschooling look like at this age?"

Clare Kirkpatrick wrote:

It looks like it does at any age: fun and connection. Do what is fun for them. If you're also working on better connection with them, a closer relationship with them, you'll also start to learn what they may find fun that they don't yet know about. Also do what is fun for you. Learning to help yourself to do fun things will help you realise that your children's learning and richness of life will come from helping them to do things they find fun.

At the moment in my house, I am having fun thinking hard about unschooling. My husband and my 12 year old are having fun and connecting with each other by playing Call of Duty together. I have helped my 6 and 8 year olds by making some space for them to build a little home for their polly pocket dolls out of wooden blocks and they are now having fun working on that and playing together. My 10 year old is having fun watching Mako Mermaids on Netflix and occasionally turning round to watch her sister and dad playing and ask questions about the game. Actually, while I've been writing that, the six year old has now snuggled next to my 12 year old to join in the chat about the game. Connection and fun. And, therefore, learning.

—Clare Kirkpatrick

https://sandradodd.com/clare.html#fun
photo: selfie by Sven, the dad

Connections coming and going

Diana Jenner wrote (not "lately" anymore):

Football has been a big connector lately. Hayden loves claw machines and on our trip won (bought) a KC Chiefs window hangie thingamabobber. He thought we should send it to the "unschoolers who sing the Kansas City Song" (Ken & Amy Briggs). When we were at Burger King the other day, the kids' prizes were NFL related. He first found KC Chiefs and reiterated his connection to the team, which led to a talk of the Briggs' actually living in NY -- "NY has TWO teams!!" As he browsed the other teams, he happened upon Cleveland Browns -- "Oh! Now I get the joke on Family Guy!! Cleveland's last name is Brown, I thought it was because of his skin color, well it is! Both!" I didn't realize how many football jokes have been on that series, but Hayden knew of a few others and it is just now that they're connecting and beginning to make sense.

I never knew how multi-layered most movies and television shows are, until I lived the freedom of no censorship with my kids. I'm excited to watch Shrek again with Hayden... we've not seen it in over a year and I know his sense of humor has drastically changed, he's more aware of innuendo, it will most likely be a whole new movie for him. I will miss his *younger* perspective as much as I look forward to this *older* one.

—Diana Jenner

SandraDodd.com/dot/hayden

also consider SandraDodd.com/again, about watching things again

Hayden playing in a fountain,
photo by Gail Higgins, I think,
or maybe by Diana Jenner

Learning what they know

"How do you know they're learning?" The people who ask that question are looking at the world through school-colored glasses. Those same parents knew when their children could use a spoon. They knew when the child could drink out of a cup. They knew when walking and talking and bike riding had been learned.

Here's how I learned that Kirby knew about the Huns: He was waiting for me to give him a ride, while I was talking on the phone to a local mom who was considering homeschooling. We were discussing unit studies, and I said they weren't necessary, that people just keep learning their whole lives. "You can't finish China," I said, and Kirby commented dryly, "The Huns tried that."

So, on my mental checklist, I note Kirby identifying the Huns, using the word in a sentence, knowing a dab about Chinese history. But was I testing? Was he reporting? Neither. He was just making a joke. And it was sufficient for me to discover what he knew.

SandraDodd.com/playing
photo by Jihong Tang

Abundance abounds!

I'm sharing this photo and note from Megan Valnes, with her permission:

Hello Sandra!

I thought of you today while observing my three youngest children having fun together and bonding while playing with the iPad. 🙂 Had I not opened our lives to the principles of Radical Unschooling, there is a high probability that this moment would never have happened. I remain grateful everyday for the wisdom I have acquired through you, your participants, and the daily practice of unschooling principles. Thank you. Abundance abounds!

—Megan Valnes
(e-mail, December 2023)

SandraDodd.com/abundance
photo by Megan Valnes