Seeing people as people

Response to this question:

At what age did you begin providing regular social interactions with other children?

I will say "from birth" and then I will ask you to replace "other children" with "other people."

Tadaa!!!
Your problem is schoolish.
You're believing that five year old girls need to play with a dozen other five year old girls. If you turn 180 degrees away from the myth and fantasy of how many friends kids have at school, and look at the real world in which you plan to live, things will look different.

Find people to visit, find places to go where other people will be. Begin to see people as people, rather than as pre-schoolers or school-age, or second grade. Just practicing that will take you MUCH nearer to peace about interactions with other people.

SandraDodd.com/deschooling
photo by Roya Dedeaux

Experiences, not lessons

Experience is the only true teacher. Give your kids experiences, not lessons. Give them opportunities to follow their hearts until they exhaust their curiosity. The longer you do schoolish things, the longer it will take for them to find a path of their own because they will constantly be looking for approval for their choices from without instead of from within. Expose them to cool and interesting people whenever you can.
. . . .
Relax. Live life. Breathe. Enjoy. Find yourself. Love your children.

—Jennifer / Jen Fox
from the last comment, here

Jennifer was writing about deschooling, so... SandraDodd.com/deschooling
photo by Julie D

Out of this world?

School has become so much a part of life in the past few decades that it seems to some that taking their children out of school is like leaving the planet altogether. You will be relieved, then, to discover that school takes kids out of the world but unschooling gives it back. I know it can sound wrong and crazy. Keep reading. Keep watching your kids. Listen to your memories of childhood.

SandraDodd.com/deschooling
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Relax back into learning

The way kids learn openly and honestly from the world around them can be hampered if parents have not deschooled well. If parents are still attached to school or schoolishness, if parents have prejudices or places they don't want to examine, they can't be as good at unschooling as parents who relax back into learning.

I've seen many families succeed, I've seen some wander off because it's not easy, and I've seen some fail.

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I'm sorry the links didn't work, in the e-mails.
They should here, now.

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Deschooling is the best next stop
though the quote came from a rougher place
photo by Colleen Prieto

Surprising changes

Sometimes deschooling works best when there are surprising (maybe even shocking) surprises, or stark refutations of what the mom has “guaranteed will happen,” or is positive can ONLY happen—that having candy out all the time will make kids throw up, have cavities, get fat. The stories of kids in the presence of the same old bowl of candy asking for vegetables and fruit are important stories to share.

Choices can’t happen without choices, and choices don’t happen well with a mom hovering around and predicting negative outcomes. Lots of people have reported that their experiences with food, and unschooling, changed everything. Seeing kids learning about food, and making choices about food, made other choices seem to make total sense.

from Always Learning, 05/07/19
photos by Ester Siroky (mushroom basket) and Elise Lauterbach (mushroom golf)

Shine the light

In advice to a fearful mom, Tara Joe Farrel wrote:

Unschooling advice—or deschooling oneself—does not change just because the kids get older: *Get closer to your child.*

Eliminate those degrees of separation that have started to grow fearful roots in you! When that happens, *you* actually start to *create* that divisiveness and separation in your relationship, by listening to your fear over the needs and interests of your kid. Do not let that monster in! Shine the light on the scary cobwebs and dark stuff.

—Tara Joe Farrell

Shining light on it
photo by Karen James
(click to enlarge)
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Good, healthy, nice, different

"Remember that unschooling is not just not taking the kids to school. It is building a good relationship with them, a healthy relationship with them, and creating a nice environment for them, different from school. So that is part of our responsibilities as unschooling parents—to heal ourselves." —Alicia Gonzalez-Lopez

Deschooling with Alicia Gonzales-Lopez,
interviewed by Pam Laricchia, March 2020 (44:25)
photo by Elise Lauterbach

Value, form and substance

My response to this (years ago):

We are going into our third year of "homeschooling." Our first year consisted of complete deschooling. The next year I fell victim to mother panic mode

If I said "I went through a year of demagnetization, and the next year all kinds of metal stuck to me," you might think I hadn't really demagnetized!

Deschooling only works when it works. Doing nothing schoolish isn't the same as actively recovering from school. Kids will get over school gradually, but there needs to be an active unschooling life taking its place as they recover. Parents get over schooling MUCH more gradually, as they were in school more and they have parental fears and responsibilities and pressures from others. So it takes more work and more time for parents to see the value of and to recognize the form and substance of natural learning.


Unschooling - some questions (2003)
photo by Ester Siroky

Becoming solid

When people first come to unschooling, when they want to be unschoolers, they're basing this on something they read that resonated, or someone they met that they'd like to be more like, which is the way I came to it, but I don't think it will really stick, and be solid in that family or in that person's way of being—in their behaviors and their thoughts—until they see that in their own children. Until you're doing it not because you think it will work, or because you've heard it will work, or read it will work, but because you've seen it work.
. . . .Until people get to that point in unschooling, they could relapse. They could easily forget that they wanted their kids to be more like someone else's kids.

But once they get to the point where their confidence in unschooling is not faith in other people, but certain knowledge, direct experience of their own children learning and being at peace, and of the parents learning to see the natural learning that happens when kids just draw for hours, or just play video games for hours, or ride their bike, or play with the dog—when they start seeing those things as equal in learning value, to things that look academic, then it's hard to relapse from certain knowledge.

20:45 in the sound recording of the interview at this link
photo by Emma Marie Forde
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P.S. By the time you get to that point, you probably won't want your kids to be different, but the comparisons are normal before deschooling, and can fade as unschooling ideas permeate and pervade.

Actually seeing it

Q:  How can families transition from more traditional methods of education to an unschooling approach?

A:  Unschooling involves seeing the world in a different way. Sometimes formal homeschooling families do some deschooling, but when switching to unschooling, more and different deschooling is needed, especially for the parents who have been involved in school and teaching and defending schooling for probably 20 or 30 years. The kids will be ready to unschool before the parents, usually.

It would help to be in contact with other unschoolers at playgroups or on the internet, and to meet unschooling families with children of various ages. It's difficult to imagine it, so it's easier to actually see it.

This new way of seeing the world involves seeing music in history, and science in geography, and art in math, and not talking about it. The last part is the hardest part.

I don't mean never talk about it. I mean don't say "Oooh, look! Science!" Once a person knows science is everywhere, and everything is connected to everything else, there will be nothing to talk about except the topic at hand, or where they're going or what they're seeing. The learning will happen without being labeled and sorted out. The labeling and sorting can prevent learning.

SandraDodd.com/successful
photo by Ester Siroky
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Keep learning

We don't know what our kids are thinking about what they're watching, hearing, tasting, smelling, feeling in their lives. And we don't need to know. It does help for us to keep learning, too, ourselves, so we have more confidence that they're learning.

SandraDodd.com/deschooling/
photo by Janine Davies

Who they are

Jill Parmer wrote:

"A huge shift for my deschooling was that I wanted my kids to be like certain kids I was reading about on the message boards. And when I had that thought, it shocked me. I realized I was not seeing my kids as who they were, that I was still wanting them to be....something else. That shock was enough to make me banish that thought and look directly at my kids and play with them and have fun with them."

—Jill Parmer

Deschooling chat transcript
photo by Alicia Gonzalez-Lopez
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The turning point of deschooling

Recovering from school is only part of a parent's deschooling process. Trust is involved, but it's an evolving trust. First one might read about or even meet some older unschooled kids and see that they're doing well. But it seems they can distance their own families a bit by thinking "Well that's fine for her kids—but mine might not be as [insert one:
    special
      bright
         gifted
            open
               calm
                  creative
                     sociable] as hers are."

The turning point comes when one sees the natural learning start to shine from her own child. Then she goes beyond trusting other unschoolers, and starts trusting natural learning.

"Of your own certain knowledge…"
or
Seeing the light with your own eyes

photo by Erika Ellis
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Time and space

Children need recovery time, and space, and peace, if they've been schooled, before their curiosity and joy can return.

SandraDodd.com/deschooling/kids
photo by Sandra Dodd
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"It all made sense"

Rachel Marie wrote:

I started to get what people meant when they said kids learn from everything. Every car ride we took where my son asked questions like who is the oldest living person and we discussed that topic, which morphed into other topics like people's life spans through time, and yet other topics .... It all made sense that this was learning.

—Rachel Marie

SandraDodd.com/deschooling
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Focus on others

Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

Wanting your family to be happy, joyful and learning seems a perfectly fine goal! But you won't get there by focusing on what you want. You'll get there by focusing on what they want.

What are your kids interested in? What do they want? How can you support that?

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/deschooling has a bit more of that, near the bottom
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Explore your neighborhood

You could think of yourselves as tourists in your own town. What museum or historical site or interesting natural feature have you not gone to see, or maybe haven't taken your children to lately? Pretend you're only in town for two weeks and do some cool things.


Or if that seems awkward to you, import a tourist. Maybe an unschooling family could be persuaded to come and visit you, and you could take them sightseeing and also discuss unschooling. Just let the kids play, though, and play with them or watch them. Look at what they're drawn to. Look at how they examine things or what they ask about. Don't be teacherly in your responses. Answer them as you would a tourist friend who was visiting town. Tell the good parts in an inspiring way. You don't need to put it in historical or political context.

Give one cool fact and if they want to know more they'll ask. That's how conversations work. Have conversations.

The quote is from page 15 of The Big Book of Unschooling,
in the Deschooling section, but here is something similar:
SandraDodd.com/video/doright (bottom of the page)
photo by Marty Dodd
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Geography without maps

As far as I know, the best way to know that deschooling has happened is that kids start asking you (or telling you) cool things, trivial things, that they might have learned in school if they had gone, or maybe that would be in books clearly marked "science" or "history," and they're no longer avoiding school subjects (if they went to school).

Or if the kids never went to school, it's when the parents can see math without numbers, and language without writing, and "writing" without handwriting, and history without kings and wars and dates, and geography without maps.

SandraDodd.com/stages
photo by Sandra Dodd, of a restaurant in a building that was once a fire station, in Albuquerque
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Out of this world?

School has become so much a part of life in the past few decades that it seems to some that taking their children out of school is like leaving the planet altogether. You will be relieved, then, to discover that school takes kids out of the world but unschooling gives it back. I know it can sound wrong and crazy. Keep reading. Keep watching your kids. Listen to your memories of childhood.

SandraDodd.com/deschooling
photo by Sandra Dodd
__

Seeing the light with your own eyes

Recovering from school is only part of a parent's deschooling process. Trust is involved, but it's an evolving trust. First one might read about or even meet some older unschooled kids and see that they're doing well. But it seems they can distance their own families a bit by thinking "Well that's fine for her kids—but mine might not be as [insert one:
    special
      bright
         gifted
            open
               calm
                  creative
                     sociable] as hers are."

The turning point comes when one sees the natural learning start to shine from her own child. Then she goes beyond trusting other unschoolers, and starts trusting natural learning.

A few years ago a mom wrote "Then I saw the light with my own eyes." That was a description of the dawning of confident unschooling.

You can read the rest of that, and also something by Ronnie Maier, here:SandraDodd.com/deschoolingcomments.


photo by Sandra Dodd, used with this thought:
It's one thing to see photos of sunflowers, or to read about sunflowers,
and quite another thing to grow your own.