And then what?

A dad new to a discussion wrote:
Kids who spend more time watching TV (both with and without parent and siblings present) spend less time interacting with family members.

Joyce Fetteroll responded:

In unschooling families?

And what criteria did the use to define "interacting" for the study?

My daughter and I have done a great deal of interacting as a direct result of TV. It's tied into her other interests in story telling. Without TV she wouldn't have the huge collection of comics she's written. Without TV we wouldn't have discovered manga. Without TV we wouldn't being going to Anime conventions together (I even dress up).

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/joyce/logic
image and card by Joyce Fetteroll

A kind of P.S.—what Joyce wrote in May 2015, when she shared the image of a card she wrote for unschoolers, on top of a scene from "Healer":

We're off to Chicago to see Kat. 🙂

One of the most connecting valuable things I did was get involved in Kat's interests. Manga, anime, drawing, writing, music. We still talk about writing and music especially. Carl connected through running, football and other sports. Of course we'll be seeing the Cubs and he and Kat will be going to the White Sox and then the hockey game so they're still connecting. 🙂

Comfortable, interesting and thoughtful

Karen James wrote:

I was a little nervous about what to expect when Ethan entered the teen years. My own teen years were kind of difficult. I have just loved being a part of Ethan's life at every stage of development, and this one is no exception. As we walked side by side at the art gallery the other day (him noticeably taller than me now!), I felt more than ever like I was with a good friend. Our interactions were comfortable and the conversation was interesting and thoughtful. I hope he felt that way too. I'm feeling more confident. It's like when he took his first steps. I knew that meant things were going to change, but I was excited to see where his next steps would lead.

—Karen James, 2016

SandraDodd.com/teens/
photo by Doug James, the dad, I'm guessing

One little choice at a time

Jen Keefe wrote:

I abandoned the stuff I thought we "had" to do and disrupted our peace, and filled it with stuff that made us happy. This was all one little choice, in the moment, at a time.

The healing and effect this has had on both my husband and me is immeasurable. Being the parent to my kids that I needed when I was younger has wrapped my own self in a comfort I never got to have before.

—Jen Keefe

SandraDodd.com/being/allin
photo by Cátia Maciel

Quirks

Lyle Perry wrote:

Quirks are what makes us individuals. What a boring world it would be without quirks. Everyone would know exactly how everyone else likes things because we would all like them the same. (What a horrible thought.)

The cool thing about unschoolers is that we get the chance to revel in our quirks, rather than hide them in fear of ridicule. And for the quirks that really do bother us, we have the opportunity to learn to deal with them without the pressures of society bearing down on us.

We have the gift of truly being ourselves.

— Lyle Perry

Conversations With Sandra Dodd (archived)
(sixth post down)
photo by Rosie Moon

Peaceful rough-and-tumble

Connie Coyle wrote:

Something that I have seen with both gentle parenting and attachment parenting is that those ideas have been used as a means of coercion and control. No matter how you disguise it, some things are still controlling.

As with anything, I think that how a person defines certain things can have a big impact on whether or not it might interfere with unschooling. The closest example I can think of is the notion of gentle parenting getting in the way of a mom being rough and tumble and wild. If a kid is super physical and needs to get really rough, then a parent might shy away from that because it is not perceived as gentle. If my memory is correct, I think I have seen that brought up in conversations before.

I also thought of the page about peace on Sandra's site: Great Big Noisy Peace [SandraDodd.com/peace/noisy]

Gentle can be screwed up the same way as peaceful in that a person can gently control you and manipulate you.

—Connie Coyle

SandraDodd.com/otherideas
(Gentle parenting advice as a hindrance?)
photo by Christine Milne

Being fully with a child

For unschooling to work, parents need to stop looking into the future and live more in the moment with their real child. BEING with a child is being where the child is, emotionally and spiritually and physically and musically and artistically. Seeing where the child *is* rather than seeing a thousand or even a dozen places she is not.

SandraDodd.com/being/with
photo by Chrissy Florence

The Discovery Moment

Carol Brown (Cally) once wrote:

We have been homeschooling for almost 18 years, and one of my favourite memories is of a day shortly after I removed my 5yo from school, where he had spent a very long seven weeks. We were going home from a friend's, accompanied by her daughter, also five, who was going to stay the night. We passed a school, where arborists were trimming some very large trees, hanging from ropes and chainsawing branches. We stopped and watched for about 3/4 hour.

This was when I truly started to realise what homeschooling was all about.

It was about learning all the time; it wasn't about learning being restricted to certain hours (all the school kids had missed out as they were long gone!)

It was about living with my kids and enabling them to learn - by stopping and watching, rather than going home to get dinner which was already going to be late.

It wasn't about curriculum or age-appropriate learning objectives, it was about observing and living life.

I was interested, they were interested, and when we went home, and had our very late dinner, it was wonderful to hear them excitedly telling dh all about it.

It's about living and learning joyfully.

—Cally

SandraDodd.com/gettingit
photo by Cally Brown
(different trees)

Part of being human

Schuyler Waynforth wrote:

Unschooling is at its core an understanding that learning is a part of being human. It is a recognition that school undermines that by saying that learning needs to be organised, structured and handed down. School argues that certain things are so hard to learn that they must be taught. If you unschool partway you are mixing up your messages. If you unschool math and science and reading but structure nutrition and media studies you are arguing that while a rich and engaging life may make the three "r"s obvious they won't help you to deal with the difficult studies of food and televisions and video games and computers.

—Schuyler Waynforth

SandraDodd.com/unschool/marginal
photo by Sarah S.

Defending cartoons

I know my opinions won't match other peoples and that's fine. What I can defend isn't what other people can defend.

When there's someone who can defend NOTHING, though, who is so cynical or shut down that all movies seem lame and all cartoons seem mindless and all music is boring and all museums are irritating, I think there's a problem with that person's attitude and perceptions, rather than their stated opinion being damning evidence against movies, cartoons, music and museums.

SandraDodd.com/t/cartoons
In Defense of Cartoons
Image from a Warner Brothers Cartoon (click here)
Both characters voiced by Mel Blanc—singing and all.

Sitting and being with

Let us assume (with my house as an example, at least) that hyperactivity runs in families and that like attracts like. With extra energy, people can do two things at once. If one of those things is pattern-building and physical, that whole verbal part of the brain is still available. Working on patterns in silence allows one’s mind to whirl and twirl.

Doing something non-verbal while talking has a special advantage: Silence is not awkward. Changing the subject temporarily to talk about the blocks or paints or puzzle is not really changing the subject. Fear and foreboding won’t cause people to leave the conversation or cry. It’s possible to pause, think, breathe, stall, collect oneself and come back to the topic in a minute.

I have a near-teen here who sometimes needs to be with me a while before he gets to what he needs to say. That puzzle didn’t really need to be worked, but perhaps that child needed to sit with that parent.

From "Leaning on a Truck," 1999
SandraDodd.com/truck
(with bonus paragraph breaks)
photo by Christine Milne

What helps?

In a sweet little side-exchange about unschooling working, and a child being 17, I wrote:

Parental hopes and worries don't help.

Parental support and smiles and snacks still help, even when the kids are on the cusp of being adults. 🙂

---

Best wishes to all with teen and young-adult unschoolers. Being their whole selves on their own paths doesn't change with the calendar. Most of you know that already; my correspondent did, too.

SandraDodd.com/teen/
photo by Sarah S.

"Try not to learn"

I was once asked:

Since unschooling is a lifestyle, how can a family wanting to embrace these ideals begin the process? What encouragement would you offer?

Part of my 1998 response:

Play. Joke. Sing. Instead of turning inward and looking for the answer within the family, within the self, turn it all inside out. Get out of the house. Go somewhere you've never been, even a city park you're unfamiliar with, or a construction site, or a different grocery store. Try just being calm and happy together. For some families, that's simple. For others it's a frightening thought.

Try not to learn. Don't try to learn. Those two aren't the same thing but they're close enough for beginners. If you see something *educational* don't say a word. Practice letting exciting opportunities go by, or at least letting the kids get the first word about something interesting you're all seeing.

---

The "Try not to learn" idea inspired Learn Nothing Day ten years afterwards (and 18 years ago, now).

SandraDodd.com/interview
photo by Holly Dodd

in French

One seamless whole

Tina Bragdon wrote:

More and more I am beginning to understand what you say about the power of our words, the semantics of them, and what they reveal about our thoughts deep down. I used to think long ago this was a bit nitpicky, but really can see what you mean when I really stop and think about it.

I think that awareness (for me anyway) is easier to come by with some of our loaded words like "lazy", "she-he always/never.." and such, but most of us weren't homeschooled let alone unschooled and as such don't realize the impact of being graded, sorted, and categorized from the age of 2-3 or so (ie-being regarded as "toddler", preschooler" and so on).

The more I take the word "teach" out of my vocabulary and am conscious of it the better it is for me and the easier it is to see my children's lives as one seamless whole and not divided by subjects.

—Tina Bragdon

The School in my Head

Mindful of Words

SandraDodd.com/subjects
photo by Holly Dodd

Getting unschooling to thrive

There is no one single right way to unschool, but there are many paths that ultimately lead away from success, so I would like to outline a map to becoming a successful unschooling parent.

Unschooling is based on the school-reform movement and the research of the late 1960's and early 1970's. John Holt wrote, in those days, about school reform, but by the end of the 1970's, he was recommending that parents keep their children home.

In the United States, school at home came along in the 1980's, with fundamentalist Christians who thought schools didn't control children well enough, and gave them too much information. But unschooling was already being done by families who felt that schools were too controlling and gave too little information. So there is quite a dichotomy.

John Holt wrote:

To parents I say, above all else, don't let your home become some terrible miniature copy of the school. No lesson plans! No quizzes! No tests!

My definition for unschooling is "creating and maintaining an environment in which natural learning can thrive."


From "Doing Unschooling Right"
(part of a "Doing Life Right" series organized by
Lisa Cottrell-Bentley in 2012)
photo by Dan Vilter

Wonder, imagination and beauty

Karen James wrote:

Instead of being afraid of this and that in society, open your heart to wonder. Spend meaningful time with your kids doing the things that captivate their imagination. Don't talk too much. Listen more. Really look into their eyes, and see how they see the world. Listen to what they're sharing with you, and hear how they interpret the world. Support what they see, and hear, and come to define as their model of reality. The more you show your support, the more you'll be invited to be a part of their lives, and the more beautiful your mutual experience will be.

—Karen James

SandraDodd.com/karenjames/hindsight
photo by Cally Brown
in New Zealand

Watch and learn

It is my long considered opinion, my eventual conviction, that trying to control TV based on the mother's judgment of what the child seems to be learning is

1) saying more about the mom than the TV or the child

2) putting a value on TV that treating it like any other book or toy or piece of furniture can never create

3) betraying the claim to believe learning is everywhere

4) usually indicative of the parent's NOT watching TV with the child.

I have watched Ninja Turtles cartoons, and movies. I have watched Power Rangers, and analyzed plots and characters with kids.

Power Rangers would not have been my first choice.

Being with my kids and seeing the world from their viewpoint and trying to help them figure it out was my first choice.

SandraDodd.com/t/debate
photo from a workshop Rose Sorooshian ran at an unschooling symposium where she let people choose TV shows, and put up what could be learned from them

Watching

Jenny Cyphers:

In the newer days years ago, what helped more than anything else was to actually see my kids and what they were actually doing. I would try to see the world from their eyes and see how they lit up and give them more of that. Just being with them and enjoying them for who they were regardless of what they were doing, watching tv, playing dress up, whatever helped keep my energy focused on them, rather than on fear of what they weren't or weren't doing.

—Jenny Cyphers
(original)

SandraDodd.com/jennycyphers
photo by Cátia Maciel

Safer safety

Mary Ellen (nellebelle) wrote, to a reporter:

I am writing as a parent who believes that the risk of my child being harmed by using the Internet is overblown.

Children are far more at risk from sexual predation by people known to the family than by strangers they meet on the Internet. Even if a predator does manage to contact a child via email or chatting, a lot would have to happen for that contact to lead to a physical meeting. Limiting children's use of the Internet is based on fear mongering and gives parents a false sense of security.

I monitor my children's Internet use by spending time with them while they are on-line. I encourage them to show me web sites they like to visit and how they use them. I show them web sites that I think they might enjoy. We speak about safety issues on an ongoing basis, just as we discuss safety in other areas of our lives.

—Mary Ellen (nellebelle)

SandraDodd.com/onlinesafety
photo by Holly Dodd

Breathe to think

Rachel S:

The hardest part for me is catching yourself in the moment and being aware enough to make the better choice that aligns with where you want to be. Luckily we have multiple opportunities daily to do so.😊

Sandra D:

If you didn't "catch yourself," that was one of those "acted thoughtlessly" moments.

Because you switched from "me" to "yourself/you," and talked about "catching yourself," I think you're seeing it as an outside influence—part of you is catching the other part of you. That's too much work and worry!

What helped me, when I had babies, was breathing before I spoke or before I decided, and eventually, taking a breath when I felt my thoughts get zippy-fast. I didn't always do it, but increasingly, many times a day, I did. Before long it was most of the time. That was growth. That was good.

Rachel S:

Yes I have started to try and stop and breath. It seems so foreign at times like I have to fill the space with something! The knee jerk conditioning is so strong at times but as you say it takes practice and eventually a new path will be laid. Thank you for replying. It has given me insight.

(original, in the comments at "Growth is good")
SandraDodd.com/breathing
photo by Nina Haley

More careful than "authentic"

Once upon a time in 2007, I was responding to a mom who was being dismissive (of her children) and defensive (of the discussion):

---

She:

I think that because of the tool we are using here to communicate that something is lost in translation.

I:

Don't try to use a saw as a hammer.

The tool we're using here can be used very well, but it takes thought and practice. No one is preventing reflection and proofreading. It's fine (and would be good) for you to hold a post and edit it carefully. Those who choose not to shouldn't complain about reactions.

She:

As powerful as words can be, the right attitude and heart behind the mistake can change how the words were perceived.

I:

Words can harm children forever. You're very unlikely to traumatize any of the moms reading here, but we can help you learn not to traumatize your children, and to think and write more clearly, if you want.

She:

Sandra also said, "Watch your thoughts, because without doing that you can't really learn to choose better reactions."
I agree with this in part.

I:

IN PART?

SandraDodd.com/authentic
photo by Rosie Moon