Philosophy and priority

Questions come up about how a parent can help teens do things they want to do. Here is an example from when I had two teens and one nearly a teen.

It has to do with philosophy and priority. I think the way I discuss whether one of my teens can go to a movie or not under the circumstances of the moment is as true and deep a life-building experience as when he asks me what squares and square roots are about.

2024 note: Truer and deeper than facts that can be discovered anywhere, anytime. Looking back, I see its importance more clearly.

One day we had from seven to seventeen kids here, in various combinations and not all at once. It was a madhouse. Seven was my low count because there are still seven here at the moment. At one point two were gone and were coming back, one was half-expected (and did show up) and Marty wanted to go to the dollar movies to see "School of Rock" with a subset of the day's count. Holly didn't want to go; her guest from England did. Kirby half wanted to go; the girls coming back wanted to see him particularly. So the discussion with Marty involved me helping him review the schedule, the logistics of which and how many cars, did he have cash, could he ask Kirby to stay, could we offer another trip to that theater the next day for those who'd missed it today, etc. I could have said "yes" or "no" without detail, but it was important to me for it to be important to Marty to learn how to make those decisions. Lots of factors.

That's part of my personal style of radical unschooling.

Today: The day this is scheduled to go out, Keith and I will have three grandkids from 8:00 to 1:00, and then the other two at night. There are logistics involved. The oldest grandchild is being paid to come back and help at night. Drivers, food, activities, re-staging between... Same goals as in the 2003 story above—fun, peace, contentment.

From longer writing, third comment at
SandraDodd.com/unschool/radical
photo by Kim Jew Studios
in those days, but not that day

Teens can feel crowded

[Teens can feel crowded] by the new and real knowledge that the house is small and the world is huge.

Baby birds have no idea what's outside that nest.

Young children will occasionally find some corner of the house, some closet or a wall surface that was always covered by furniture before and they are not surprised that there are parts of that house they had never seen before. The house is everything.

Teenagers know they are meant to get up and go out. They're not happy about it, sometimes, especially when their house is a haven of love and sweetness and creativity, but their instincts kick in anyway and their perspective changes, very literally, and that nest seems like just a little wad of sticks on one little branch of one of ten thousand trees....

Crowded by their new awarenesses and raging hormones and their relative size (their rooms and beds are getting smaller by the day) and their collections of stuffed animals and action figures and Lego.

Sandra
(January 2000, with one teen and two pre-teens then)

SandraDodd.com/teen/crowded
photo of Holly Dodd on her way to a party

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This photo was in the Just Add Light folder for many, many years, waiting for a quote or topic it might slightly match.
Good enough.

Sometime I go EEEEEk.

EEEEEk.
What gets me more than the casual acceptance and recommendation of arbitrary limitations is the characterization of allowing children choices as "plonking a 3, 4, 5, 10 year old in front of the television/google."

Can you imagine ANYone "plonking" a ten year old in front of google? And what? Demanding he look something up? But I have seen kids that young have a BLAST with google and other search functions, about games, or YouTube, or NetFlix.

If they can look up game hints at ten, they will be able to look up building codes or disease treatments or various translations of Bible passages on their own anytime thereafter, given resources. Practicing on something that might seem "loose, easy and unnecessary" can *BE* what is needed for them to be competent, functional workers when they're older. And I won't say "when they're grown," because my kids were competent functional workers when they were mid-teens, every single one of them.

So when people who haven't had a child who is mid-teens disparages my knowledge in light of their paranoid theories, sometimes I go EEEEEk.

Sandra
2011

Plonking a child down in front of the television
is where I found it, but the original is here:
on Always Learning,
wherein the rant is all one paragraph.

photo by Sandra Dodd, of a granddaughter playing a game, a husband reading the news, and the TV was playing "Pupstruction" for another grandchild not appearing in that photo

Priorities, influence, reading

A story from when Kirby was in his late teens:

Kirby was reading aloud the other night from a gaming manual to that big batch of guys who went to see Pirates of Penzance with us. Kirby and Marty really wanted to go to the play. As things turned out, three unexpected others went with us. That was fine. They went because they were involved in a roleplaying game, and wanted to continue it later, and because they trust Kirby and Marty's judgement about what's cool.

They had fun, and came back and played several hours longer afterward. But Kirby, one of the youngest of the seven there, and one of the "least educated," was reading difficult material aloud to attentive others, one of whom... has a college degree, one of whom has two years of college, and none of whom had any reason to say, "Let me read that." He could've been reading it for taping, or radio. Expressive, clear, no hesitation.

He's confident in his skin, in his mind, and in his being.
He's not afraid of his parents.
He goes to sleep happy and he wakes up glad.

My priorities could have been different.

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Kirby is in his 30s now, married, and reads each night to two little girls. I wish I could hear it sometimes.

SandraDodd.com/priorities
photo by Sandra Dodd— not of that night's game, but there's Kirby in black to the right, and Marty in green, with other unschoolers

States of being

Sometimes wind is blowing and sometimes it's still. Usually water is wet, but in some times and places it can be ice.

I have vivid memories of being childless. I had babies, and children, and teens (not all at the same time). Now I'm a grandmother.

May your status and your transitions be peaceful and calm, with joys to discover.

SandraDodd.com/calm
photo by Tessa Onderwater

Growing up and leaving gently

I have heard many stories of the rearrangements of families with unschoolers who are in their late teens or early twenties, and a young adult will leave, or bring another in, or the house is split up some. The stories are peaceful, and not about fear and arguments.

This, below, is from an interview I did in 2010.

I think when the child leaves naturally and positively, for a good reason, and the parents were willing to have him stay longer, there are fewer regrets and frustrations than under other circumstances. When kids are small, the mom is constantly on call. When Holly was born I had two and five year old boys. I know what it's like to have three young children. I also know what it's like to have three teens driving. But when they're calmly and confidently grown, the mom can leave for a month and they'll still be okay.

—Sandra Dodd

Interview, by Kim Houssenloge, of Feather and Nest
photo by Jihong Tang

Real world

The thing I think I've seen more than anything else in some of the older unschoolers, the people who are teens who haven't been to school much or at all, is they are so whole. Their place in the world is real. They're not preparing for the possibility of applying to have a place in the world after they're grown. They are in the world. And there's something so different about that.

Unschooling and Real Learning
photo by Sarah Dickinson

Who reads how

Written when my kids were teens:

Kirby reads like a lawyer. He can skim a rules book or instructions for a game, and explain simply and clearly to others. If he forgets a detail, he'll be able to find it easily.

Marty likes humor and history.

Holly's main reading is on the internet, but she likes name books, and other non-fiction and trivia. One thing she doesn't use the internet for is definitions and spellings. She likes my old full-size American Heritage Dictionary, and will sprint upstairs to look something up on the slightest excuse.

Three Readers—SandraDodd.com/threereaders
(It's all one paragraph in the original.)
photo by Sara McGrath

Learning and living joyfully

When teens or young adults have chosen to have a job without desperation for money, and when they are accustomed to learning all the time and living joyfully, they are a different sort of employee.

SandraDodd.com/jobs/bigbook
photo by Sandra Dodd

Loving and patient

In families in which parents have considered themselves partners in their children's rich lives, teens don't have the desperate urge to leave. A natural desire to leave the nest does kick in, as it does for many mammals. It might have kicked in sooner if the culture didn't require parents to take care of their children and be responsible for them until they were 18 years old. I know dozens of teens up close, by name, who are loving and patient with their parents even though the parents are getting old and forgetful. Teens can be helpful and generous with parents and siblings when they themselves have been generously helped up to that point.

from "Saying Yes to Teens" in The Big Book of Unschooling (page 252 or 293)
which links to
SandraDodd.com/yes

photo by Belinda Dutch

Quick! They're gone!

Older moms say "Appreciate your kids. They'll be grown before you know it."

Younger moms think it's rude, and wrong, and can hardly endure the endless days of damp, stinky babies and toddlers, and messy, destructive, needy three and four year olds, and...

Life is made of stages that can seem long. I've had young children and felt sticky and crowded and exhausted. I've had teens I started to miss before they were gone.

Wherever you are, breathe and be patient and loving.


SandraDodd.com/patience
photo by Ester Siroky

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This is a re-run from only a year ago. I usually wait longer, but I feel that this could help some parent (or many) every month. Please continue to be as kind and as appreciative as you can be, even when the world outside isn't helping. You could be the best part of someone else's day.

Even better...

Here's a misuse of "just," from 2004. We were talking about principles over rules, regarding teens going out with friends, and the possibility of living without solid curfews. I wrote:

"When things are handled matter-of-factly and the kids KNOW the parents love them and will be there for them, a lot of the air of danger and urgency just dissipate."

It's way too late, but I wish I had written "can dissipate." For one thing, there's no guarantee. Also, if it happens, it's not casual magic.

If trust and love do bring feelings of safety and calm choices into a teen's life, that's solid, and good, and should not be dismissed with "just."

JUST. Just what?
photo by Shan Burton
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P.S. Should've been "dissipates" in the original anyway, for the technical among us. There are discussions in busy moments, and then there are quotes from those, years later.

Hiding

Think of times you've wanted to hide, or just plain hid. Me, lately, from sunshine, from projects, from people.

Think about when it's okay for your kids to want to hide away a while.

Then, please, try not to hide from your kids. When they're older teens or young adults, you'll get to stay in the shade, procrastinating, maybe more than you even want to. 🙂

SandraDodd.com/being/home
photo by Karen James

Smoke and fire; hobbies and jobs

Some things are more interesting to a child at one age or another, or too dangerous, but the ages vary with different people. Principles are better than rules, for interests and safety.

Physical conditions matter, too. A fire on grass is safer than a fire in a dry desert in autumn, or in the windy Springtime.

Interests that are wonderful and richly full of learning for one child might seem repulsive or as dry as the desert to another child. Good! That's fine! Paying attention to what they like could help you let them know of hobbies, volunteer work, or jobs they might consider, as teens, or as adults, that match their interests and strengths.

The link below goes to a long list of jobs, from various discussions over the past fifteen years. It might be fun, as you read through them to consider jobs that were rare or nonexistent before the past year or two, or jobs that might fade away within a few years.

SandraDodd.com/jobs
photo by Elise Lauterbach
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In the world

The thing I think I've seen more than anything else in some of the older unschoolers, the people who are teens who haven't been to school much or at all, is they are so whole. Their place in the world is real. They're not preparing for the possibility of applying to have a place in the world after they're grown. They are in the world. And there's something so different about that.

Unschooling and Real Learning
photo by Sarah Dickinson

Another benefit of generosity

I've seen a difference in motivation in teens who have been nurtured and whose parents were not adversarial with them. They don't consider food a reward, and so they're less likely to spend all their money on food to self-soothe. They rarely need to "self-soothe" anyway. If they have a success in a project or at work they enjoy it for itself, for the feeling of accomplishment. And if their parents have managed not to use money in lieu of attention and expressions of affection, they're careful with money, too. If money means love, a needy person will want more money. If money is a tool like a hammer, or a substance like bread or toilet paper—necessary for comfort, and it's good to have extra—then it would make no more sense for them to spend all their money than it would make to throw a hammer away because they had already put the nail in the wall, or to unroll all the toilet paper just because it was there. If the parents have been generous, many other problems are averted.

Big Book of Unschooling, page 299 (258 in first edition)
photo of teenaged Marty as Dr. Strangelove at a costume party
__ __

Avoiding future problems

I had been unschooling for years before a few people suggested on a message board that requiring kids to do chores could be as bad as making them do schoolwork. I perked up immediately, and everything they said has proven true at our house. The first principle was "If a mess is bothering you, YOU clean it up." Another one was "Do things for your family because you *want* to!"

It was new to me to consider housework a fun thing to be done with a happy attitude, but as it has changed my life and because it fit in so well with the other unschooling issues, I've collected things to help others consider this change as well.

In the same way that food controls can create food issues, forcing housework on children can cause resentments and avoidances which neither get houses clean nor improve the relationships between children and parents.

Also, studies of separated identical twins have shown that the desire and ability to clean and organize has more to do with genetics than "training."

SandraDodd.com/chores
photo by Sandra Dodd, of nearly-teen Holly wearing a shirt from her mom's late teens
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Mature without pretending

Most of the unschooled teens I've met had a calm and maturity that I'm not used to finding even in random adults in their 20's and 30's, who are sometimes awkwardly pretending to be mature, or sometimes still actively reveling in their new-adult freedom. I've known teens (and am related to some) who are as comfortable with younger children as with older teens and adults and grandparents. They see people as people. They will be drawn to interesting people and will avoid dull or harsh people, but they don't choose by age.

Big Book of Unschooling, page 299 (258 in first edition)
photo by Karen James

Quick! They're gone!

Older moms say "Appreciate your kids. They'll be grown before you know it." Younger moms think it's rude, and wrong, and can hardly endure the endless days of damp, stinky babies and toddlers, and messy, destructive, needy three and four year olds, and... Life is made of stages that can seem long. I've had young children and felt sticky and crowded and exhausted. I've had teens I started to miss before they were gone. Wherever you are, breathe and be patient and loving.

SandraDodd.com/patience
photo by Ester Siroky

Finding a social spot

Humans are social animals, and learn in mixed-age groups, when they learn naturally. A family can create that natural learning environment, or can fail to create it. :-/ Being around other people, though, IF AND WHEN a child wants to learn and is encouraged by parents to learn how to be considerate and sociable, can be a good place to learn "manners"—ways to behave politely.

In school, children are still social animals with the need to identify who might help them, and what their role is within the social structure. The social structure being unnaturally 20+ kids the same age, they figure out who are the leaders and the "young" and they act in accordance with their instincts in an unnatural setting. More adults to—teens, and young adults, and middle-aged, and elderly, behaving in natural real-world ways. TV is better for that than school is. Ideally, a rich unschooled life *IN* the real world is better than either.



photo by Julie D

I can't find where I wrote that, up there, but three people shared it in 2012,
and I still think it's true. —Sandra