Negotiations, commerce (not bribery)

I think we were discussing offering an older child money to read to a younger child, or to play with them at their level; kind of an occasional in-house mother's helper situation. Someone asked about bribery; my response follows. —Sandra

How do you go about it without it feeling like/being bribery? I'm guessing it is in attitude and wording, but I can't imagine a way to word it that it doesn't sound like bribery to me...? Thanks for the idea!

How do places of business get people to go to work without "bribery"?
How do you get an auto dealer to give you a car without bribery?

If someone's supposed to do something anyway and holds out on you until you pay them or give them something, that's a bribe. If something is not someone's job or someone's property and they negotiate for an exchange, that's commerce, not bribery.

There are some truisms that are spoken without real examination and I think the very vague rules against bribery of children are right up top there.

SandraDodd.com/bribery
photo by Cátia Maciel

Where do you look?

How do you apportion your patience, attention, courtesy, time, money, material help, respect?

Those sorts of decisions make you who you are.


SandraDodd.com/eyecontact
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Learning the OTHER things

Sylvia Toyama wrote, in 2004:

This week Andy has figured out money, and it's happened in spurts all week... . . . .
He has learned all this through his own observations. He figured it on his own, when it made sense to him, because it was now important to him to know. And he has the pleasure of knowing he did it without being 'taught' by someone else. He's learned that he's capable and smart — something you just can't get from a worksheet with some arcane facts memorized.

And that's how they reach the point of 'wanting to learn' — when it matters to them, not when it matters to you or anyone else.

—Sylvia Toyama

You can read the details I left out
at SandraDodd.com/math/money
photo by Cátia Maciel

If mathematics is easy for a person...

Disclaimers: Unschooling doesn't ensure mathematical ability.

I wrote this before Marty got a degree in economics. They were 18 or older before taking any classes, and only needed to pay for the books.

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My kids all caught up with formal math in a semester or two of community college. Marty did up to calculus. Kirby only took one class but makes use of math all the time in his work and play, and is good with money and loans and banking and all that practical life stuff.

Holly took three classes, I think. Maybe two. Liked it; it wasn't difficult. There were people in class with her bemoaning the difficulty, and they had been in school for twelve years or more, taking math classes.

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That was written in 2014. Their paid employment and their hobbies, since then, have involved some or all of logistics, statistics, financial accounting, coding/programming, inventory and cash handling. What they learned in class was the notation used to communicate mathematical ideas "on paper" in our culture.

Some of their facility might have been inherited genetically from their mathish dad. That's fair, too.

SandraDodd.com/math/schoolmath
photo by Shawn Smythe Haunschild

Say yes when you can

My kids are great at delayed gratification, all of them. They have saved money, earned money, bought small things, and large things, waited for friends to visit, waited for holidays and parties, and because they're busy and secure people, they could always find something to do. But they were also generally sure that as soon as it WAS possible, they would do it, or have it. That's because they had lived their lives with parents who were their partners and who helped them, rather than thwarted or frustrated them.

Some kids get to 18 and they're sick and tired of waiting, and they don't want to wait anymore for ANYthing. Some turn to drugs, drinking, partying, charge cards, driving too fast... When parents have a choice of saying yes or no, and they choose 'no' because they think it's good for their child, they are putting that pressure and tension in the bank to gain interest.

Say yes when you can, especially if it's about something that will help your child learn. If you can't decide, think "Will he be happy and learn? Will this help with unschooling?"

2013, Sandra
of kids who were in their early- to mid-20s then

SandraDodd.com/no
photo by Holly Dodd
of herself wearing a top from the 1970s that I handed down to her, with an orchid plant rescued from a trash can

The world expands

When people are able to relax into learning without the self-consciousness of whether what they're learning will impress the neighbors or make them more money, the world expands hugely.

Quote from side commentary, but this works:
SandraDodd.com/chores/option
photo by Nina Haley

Discovering resources

Meredith wrote:

Sometimes the money question is about fears of not having enough to make home rich and joyful - can we really afford to unschool? Is it expensive? And the answer is yes and no. It takes a lot of resources, but money is just one kind of resource. Time is another—and a big one. If you don't have time to spend with your kids, then unschooling might not be a good choice. Creativity is a useful resource, especially if you're short on money and/or time - you can get by with less creativity if you have more money, though. Adaptability is one of the most vital resources for unschooling - if you don't adapt well to new circumstances, then all the time, money and creativity in the world won't help if you have a child who can't meet all your expectations.

—Meredith Novak

SandraDodd.com/unschoolingcost
photo by Holly Dodd

Look and rejoice

How much do you need to own to touch a child gently? How much money do you need to have in order to smile?

Look at what you have rather than what you don't have. Look at what is in the world beyond your family and your neighborhood, and rejoice that your child might be able to go out someday and experience things you've never seen or heard or touched or tasted.

SandraDodd.com/abundance
photo by Sandra Dodd, of fried potatoes
in a pan we earned with grocery store points
before we had children

Imaginary advisors

Sandra Dodd, on stored internal messages:

I think of whose voices I've let speak back to me when I'm wondering what to do, what cartoonish characters are in the peanut gallery of my conscience. I have Mr. Jamison who was the best voice coach I ever had. That's when I'm singing, or sometimes when I'm getting gushy about certain kinds of music and a voice (Sam Jamison's) says it's pap. I don't always agree with him, but I wrestle his opinion lots of times when I don't expect to need to.

I have lots of former best friends, neighbors, teachers, relatives. Some have to sit in the dark back rows, and I don't listen to them as much as I once did because I decided their advice was bad. Some are totally situational (music, or money, or cooking). Some are more about philosophy and ethics and compassion, so they sit up in front with the light on them more often.

I don't mind being one of the council of imaginary advisors anyone has. I just hope they'll listen to lots of voices and not follow any of them without really thinking about it or understanding why.

Use your words (with a great comment)
photo by Sandra Dodd

"A" is for Abundance

This photo is the background for the "A" on the current Learn Nothing Day logo.

Jenny Cyphers wrote:

In order for kids to feel and see abundance, they first must have parents who feel and see it too, even if there is no money. Go to parks, pick up sticks, ride bikes to new places, swing on the swing differently, make bubbles and blow them in front of a fan. Look at stars at night and try to find constellations, light things on fire with magnifying glass, roast hot dogs for dinner (it's cheap), the possibilities are limitless, but only if you choose to see them. THAT is what will help your kids learn how to be creative thinkers—seeing and doing creative things.

—Jenny Cyphers
at SandraDodd.com/abundance

The photo appeared here in First aid for scary, sad days of doubt
Thank you, Alex Polikowsky.

Our touchstone was learning.

Our touchstone was learning. Learning happens. We looked for new experiences for our kids, when we could. We didn't have much money when they were little, but there were free things to do in our city, and fun things to do at our house.

Peace and fun and learning, in various permutations, got us a long way.

Learning happens.
photo by Colleen Prieto

Learning and living joyfully

When teens or young adults have chosen to have a job without desperation for money, and when they are accustomed to learning all the time and living joyfully, they are a different sort of employee.

SandraDodd.com/jobs/bigbook
photo by Sandra Dodd

Optimistic and involved

Deb Lewis:

There were times when things were really tight for us. I mean no gas money and beans and rice for dinner every night.

If I had it to do it again I would use the credit card more. Not go crazy but if twenty or thirty dollars made a big difference in the life of my kid then I’d do that. If you’re justifying coffee and makeup or other adult things that aren’t strictly necessary, then make that same effort to justify some things your kids might like, too. Don’t always sacrifice kid things because they seem less important or urgent.

But don’t underestimate how wonderful your happy presence can be for your kids. Be sweet and playful and optimistic and involved. Give them lots of your time.

—Deb Lewis

Quote edited slightly to make it more past tense
Original here: Suggestions for creating abundance when funds are low
photo by Jill Parmer
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Impermanence AGAIN!?

It's true; the subscription provider has changed. Feedburner is closing at the end of June, and another company offered to import five blogs for me, so if you want to add any of the others to your feed, they are Unschooling Site News, SandraDodd.com Sandra Dodd (personal blog) Homeschool News and Muse mainstream articles, but I might start using that for other things Wheelbarrows (Wheelbarrows interest me, and they are also a portal into people's history, lives, and gardens.) If you clicked through to the subscription service and saw "Publisher: aelflaed" that's me. When google mail came along, someone snagged my name (probably because it was her name), so I used my SCA/medieval-studies name. "Ælflæd" was like lots of names 1000 years ago, but now it's like Alfred and Elsie (surviving cousins). ANYway.... that's me, on google-owned sites. There are TWO ways to get to the blog from e-mail now—clicking the post's title, or "read more" at the bottom. A new option is to get a push notification on your phone, so for those who didn't like the e-mail's appearance on a phone, I hope this is way better. Changes do not thrill me, and I'm getting old. But Vlad Gurdiga is still young and enthusiastic. He helped with this move as he has helped with many other things involving my collections— moving thousands of photos from photobucket (which kept on changing and losing things and charging more money) to SandraDodd.com (which he moved from yahoo to another host company). Thank you Vlad, again.

photo by Holly Dodd

Learning so many things

When unschooling is equated with alternative school, it can blind people to the possibilities of full-on radical unschooling. No matter how extremely great or different a school is from a traditional school, or the default standard, it is still a school.

Parents who are unschooling as a whole way of life, can discover what no school can find, and the core aspect of it is the family as a base for learning—for learning about family, for learning about relationships, and resources, money, food and sleep, and learning about laughter.

SandraDodd.com/familybonding
photo by Cátia Maciel

Another benefit of generosity

I've seen a difference in motivation in teens who have been nurtured and whose parents were not adversarial with them. They don't consider food a reward, and so they're less likely to spend all their money on food to self-soothe. They rarely need to "self-soothe" anyway. If they have a success in a project or at work they enjoy it for itself, for the feeling of accomplishment. And if their parents have managed not to use money in lieu of attention and expressions of affection, they're careful with money, too. If money means love, a needy person will want more money. If money is a tool like a hammer, or a substance like bread or toilet paper—necessary for comfort, and it's good to have extra—then it would make no more sense for them to spend all their money than it would make to throw a hammer away because they had already put the nail in the wall, or to unroll all the toilet paper just because it was there. If the parents have been generous, many other problems are averted.

Big Book of Unschooling, page 299 (258 in first edition)
photo of teenaged Marty as Dr. Strangelove at a costume party
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All kinds of doors

Sometimes doors are open, and sometimes they're not. Sometimes it costs money to go through a door, or it's private, or it is so locked or sealed that it's just part of the wall.

Real doors open up to mysteries, beauty, food, something scary, or boring. All kinds of things have doors.

Metaphorical or figurative doors, ditto!

Sometimes the door is interesting even if it's not open to everyone.

Hidden secret rooms and magic doors
and
zombies
photo by Ester Siroky

Nearly ten years of this

When I started Just Add Light and Stir, I didn't think "And I'll still be doing this in ten years!" In two days, September 2, year 11 begins. I suppose there's a possibility I'll still be doing it for another ten. 🙂

The past six months have been awkward and unsettling. After years and years of others looking askance at unschooling, though, and asking questions like "Don't you get tired of being together so much?" and "How can they learn without a lot of other kids around?" then all this happened. ALL the families were sent home to stay and learn.

Unforeseen benefits of unschooling are fun to collect, but I did not see this one coming. Unschoolers seemed to find that the transition from choosing to stay home to being told to stay home a while wasn't very difficult. Others, used to recitations about the crucial importance of school, of being around other people, and of scattering out every day, didn't slip as smoothly into being home.

Thank you for reading here, and for being examples others might be comforted or inspired by. Calm and peace are valuable resources.

This is my quieter-than-usual annual request for financial assistance. The main page of SandraDodd.com has a donation link at the bottom, but ignore this if you're not flush and comfortable these days. If money is short, put it toward your children's ease and stability.

photo by Jo Fielding

The river of newness

Emily Strength wrote:

"The pop culture of today is the history of tomorrow."

I responded:

This is true of music, clothing, food, hairstyles, slang, cars, kitchen design, dishes, shoes, musical instruments (think of pianos or guitars you have known—which were from the 19th century, maybe, or early 20th, or 1970's, or recently made by Yamaha which kicks musical... butt).

Any of those topics could lead to very many trails involving technology, international trade, cultural borrowings, religion (why didn't I say "kicks ass" above? It would have disturbed some people, and now it still can; sorry), superstition, money...

The science of today is the "What were they THINKING!?" of tomorrow [as we shake our heads and roll our eyes about scientific fallacies of the past, until they are (many of them, individually, sometimes randomly) shown to have been fact after all].

The proper language and punctuation of today will irritate those not yet born, in 35 years.

Find this river of newness becoming history that's flowing right around and through us all, and learn to ride it openly and happily if you can!

—Sandra Dodd

History and Unschooling
photo by Amy Milstein

Avoiding problems

What else can be a problem with unschooling?
Trying to save time and money; skimping on attention.

I've done this, "Not now," or "please not today." But what do you tell yourself about that? If it's "Good, no problem," that's bad, and a problem.

Generosity begets generosity
photo by Roya Dedeaux