When to say no

Sandra Dodd, response in 2000 to: Can anyone explain to me "unschooling"?

It's like "just say no."

Just say no to school years and school schedules and school expectations, school habits and fears and terminology. Just say no to separating the world into important and unimportant things, into separating knowledge into math, science, history and language arts, with music, art and "PE" set in their less important little places.

Most of unschooling has to happen inside the parents. They need to spend some time sorting out what is real from what is construct, and what occurs in nature from what only occurs in school (and then in the minds of those who were told school was real life, school was a kid's fulltime job, school was more important than anything, school would keep them from being ignorant, school would make them happy and rich and right).

It's what happens after all that school stuff is banished from your life.

Several Definitions of Unschooling
photo by Rosie Moon

Simple fun

We just had our 33rd wedding anniversary last week. Someone wished me well on my page and said she hoped we did something fun. I said we had transplanted mint and pulled some weeds (or something), and she said (nicely, joking) she meant MORE fun. But maybe the way to stay happily married for many years is to have fun transplanting mint...

—Sandra Dodd
(married over 41 years now
and that mint is still happy)

SandraDodd.com/laundry
photo by Sandra Dodd
of some of that mint, off season

It's fall, today. In early summer, that mint is thick and happy. We planted it around three or four rocks. Over the years Keith has added more cool rocks.

A series of choices

Me/Sandra, in response to the mom of a youngish boy who sometimes agreed to do something, but when the time came, he was reluctant:

I do have a practical suggestion. Don't make it all or nothing. Say maybe "Let's just drive over there and see if you feel differently," or see if he's hungry or doesn't like his shoes or something plain and practical. Maybe he doesn't want to miss a program; can you record it? Maybe he doesn't want to go out in the cold. Maybe if he does get in the car and get there, maybe he'll want to go in. Maybe it's the being at rest that he doesn't want to change.

Maybe you could say "Let's go and watch a while, and then if you want to come home we can." If he gets all the way in and sees the other kids, he might want to stay, or he might not.

The final decision doesn't need to be made before you leave or even after you get there. Every moment can be another "pass or play" point.

Instead of looking at it as a "commitment," think of it as a series of choices.

UnschoolingDiscussion—Commitments, 2006
photo by Sandra Dodd
of Marty Dodd at 9 years old.
He finished the season, but didn't want to return because of the pressure other kids' dads were putting on them to WIN and to be aggressive.

Checking and comparing

Someone asked:

Do you still look at standards for certain grade levels only so that the state leave you alone or do you just wait until they say something and show them what your kid can do?

Sandra:

I used to look from time to time at APS (Albuquerque Public Schools) Expected Competencies, or the World Book list or something similar, but now I look maybe every two years.

In New Mexico they're not going to ask you to show what your child can do. And when you're with your child in busy learning-situations every day, you'll see the learning just take off!

That was my 2002 answer, when my youngest was 10. I quit checking "should be" lists at some point. We were fortunate to live where that was a good option.

SandraDodd.com/questions
photo by Gail Higgins

Quickly but gradually...

Instead of just going from lots of control to "do whatever you want," a really sweet way to do it is quickly but gradually. Quickly in your head, but not all of a sudden in theirs. Just allow yourself to say "okay" or "sure!" anytime it's not really going to be a problem.

If something isn't going to hurt anything (going barefoot, wearing the orange jacket with the pink dress, eating a donut, not coming to dinner because it's the good part of a game/show/movie, staying up later, dancing) you can just say "Okay."

And then later instead of "aren't you glad I let you do that? Don't expect it every time," you could say something reinforcing for both of you, like "That really looked like fun," or "It felt better for me to say yes than to say no. I should say 'yes' more," or something conversational but real.

The purpose of that is to help ease them from the controlling patterns to a more moment-based and support-based decision making mindset. If they want to do something and you say yes in an unusual way (unusual to them), communication will help. That way they'll know you really meant to say yes, that it wasn't a fluke, or you just being too distracted to notice what they were doing.

SandraDodd.com/eating/control.html
photo by Cátia Maciel
__

Optimistic reality

Sometimes people say, "Anyone can unschool." And I always cringe when they do that, because the same kind of people who write or say things like that in public tend not to be the people who are going to stick around and walk people through it, and help other people do it. It just sounds good, it’s cheery, it’s inclusive, and it's wrong.

SandraDodd.com/whocanunschool
Who Can Unschool?
(short sound file, and transcript)

photo by DenaireNixon

Let them live THEIR childhoods

Someone (who was against video games) wrote:

Being exposed to new stuff is what will generate new interests.

I responded:

If they're being "exposed" to new stuff just to generate new interests, though, they could easily decide to resist and avoid the new stuff, long for video games, and not trust or desire time with mom.

Wanting kids to do what mom envisioned her own ideal childhood to be is a trap to be avoided. Don't try to get them to live YOUR missed childhood. Let them live theirs, or they will miss both.

How important is your child?
photo by Alex Polikowski, of a computer her son built, with her help, when he was younger. That son is grown and an engineering student now.
____

Tricked by "knowledge"

Meredith Novak wrote:

A great deal of parenting "wisdom" is made up of things "everyone knows" because everyone repeats them back and forth, over and over. Like "you have to go to school to learn" and "children need rules". Some of the things "everyone knows" are completely wrong, but because "everyone knows" them, it's very, very difficult for people to change their attitudes even in the presence of evidence to the contrary.

It was really shocking for me to discover just how much of what I "knew" was a result of that repetition. I accounted myself an intelligent, thoughtful person, with strong "alternative" viewpoints, but most of what I thought I knew about parenting was based in a kind of cultural conditioning. The ideas in my head weren't my own. That's humbling.

—Meredith

SandraDodd.com/sugar
photo by Sandra Dodd

How (and why) to help kids

I would help my kids with anything they needed help with, if I had the time and patience. When I didn't do so, I wasn't being the best mom I knew I could be.

I read video game directions to them just as I read books to them or song lyrics or cereal boxes or menus. I assisted them in the world until they chose to function without me. They still do ask for help sometimes, of other sorts, because they trust me to help, so it was an unforeseen investment in the future of our relationships.

Holly played a game called Harvest Moon quite a bit before she could read. I made her some charts to help, and I would come and read, and from printouts of internet hints and details, I made her a booklet so she could decide which crops to plant, and printed out a calendar of the Harvest Moon year, because there are seasons and festivals that factor in to decisions sometimes.

SandraDodd.com/panel
Unschooling Panel Follow-Up (HSC 2007)

photo by Sandra Dodd
of my kids' actual things

Competitive efficiency

One problem that comes up is efficiency. The idea of the glory of efficiency can be a problem. Because people get competitive, we’re all keeping track of how quickly we got into university and how soon we got out. Or how many minutes we take to get dinner on the table. “Oh, well, I can do that meal in 30 minutes!” “Well, I can do that meal in 20 minutes!”

Unschooling isn’t like that at all, even in the long term it’s not about the completion of a project at all. It’s about becoming the sort of people who see and appreciate and trust that learning can happen. And who can travel with children, not just drag them along or push them along, but who can travel with children along those interesting paths together not until you get there, but indefinitely.

And for beginning unschoolers that sounds also a little esoteric, a little foofy. And not solid. They want to know what do I do when the kids wake up in the morning? So, the beginning information is very often, “What do I do?” But the information that will get people from the beginning to the intermediate is why. Why do we do this?

SandraDodd.com/parentschange
photo by Colleen Prieto

Depth and breadth

Sink-Like-a-Stone Method:

Instead of skimming the surface of a subject or interest, drop anchor there for a while. If someone is interested in chess, mess with chess. Not just the game, but the structure and history of tournaments. How do chess clocks work? What is the history of the names and shapes of the playing pieces? What other board games are also traditional and which are older than chess? If you're near a games shop or a fancy gift shop, wander by and look at different chess sets on display. It will be like a teeny chess museum. The interest will either increase or burn out—don't push it past the child's interest.

When someone understands the depth and breadth of one subject, he will know that any other subject has breadth and depth.

From "Disposable Checklists for Unschoolers"
SandraDodd.com/checklists
scanner image by Sandra Dodd

Valuing Scooby-Doo

Colleen Prieto was talking to her son Robbie, who was nine, about "Frankenstorm." Below is Colleen's account:

He thought for no more than a second, and then very excitedly told me:

"Mom, Frankenstein is not evil. People just think he's evil but he's not - he's just trying to be good even though he's failing. Even though I haven't read the book or saw the movie if they made one, I know that pretty much from Scooby Doo. So we have nothing to worry about with the hurricane if now it's Frankenstorm because Frankenstein is good. If we were supposed to be scared, then they should have picked a better name!"

Many, many times in my daily life with my son, I am reminded that there is value in so very many things—be those things Scooby Doo or Pokemon or Star Wars or Harry Potter or 1,000 other "easy to criticize" forms of media or entertainment. Life is so much more fun when you look to the happy parts, look for the good, and keep an open mind.

Scooby-Doo, Frankenstein, and a Big Storm
photo by Sandra Dodd
__

"It seems miraculous."

Sandra Dodd:

One of my favorite pages, on my site, is my collection of people saying they felt like they were unschooling and then something changed and they "got it." (sandradodd.com/gettingit)

People are saying things like "It seems miraculous" and "It is amazing how far reaching the effect was."

So this is part of why I'm uncompromising in my position about what does and what doesn't help.

When people want to dilute unschooling, I object.

Marta Pires:

I'm glad you're not willing to compromise.

Sandra Dodd:

When people want to devalue, granulate and scatter unschooling, they will keep people from reaching those miraculous-seeming and far-reaching results.

Alex Polikowsky:

And even more important is for those who think just doing nothing is the same as unschooling. I am talking disconnected, somewhat neglectful parents who may be sweet and all but still have not gotten it and that leaves kids without a real present partner they can rely on for support and guidance.

"Getting It" (chat transcript, 2014)
photo by Theresa Larson

Fifteenth Anniversary!

Images and parts of the text are links.

First post, with some nice comments, from 2010:

This would need more candles now, but...



May the richness and riches of this trove of words and photos seep into your soul and give you sweet dreams and good ideas.

---

With this, there are 5,343 posts. A few were deleted in the past for lacking longevity (announcements, temporary info). Some have been repeated for being especially good. They are labelled four ways, to keep it from being one big label/tag, so if you would like to see some "greatest hits," these are clickable, and are called

again (72 of those)

again! (147)

re-run (151)

repeat (136)

For today, then, if those are excluded, there are 4,837 non-repeated posts. Still around 5,000.

Most posts link to an unschooling page or two on my website. Most of those pages link back to this blog (from a little link in the upper right corner).

If you would like to help fund the maintenance of that site (from which most of the quotes come), there is a donation link at SandraDodd.com (which can also be accessed from this image on most of the unschooling pages:


The donation link is halfway down there. It's PayPal, debit or credit.

I can accept checks or Christmas cards to:

Sandra Dodd
8116 Princess Jeanne NE
Albuquerque NM 87110     USA

(If cool foreign money, save it there; consider photo request below!)

Also useful would be photos for the collection from which I try to pull a match for a text. Not all get used and some get used very late, but it's nice to have a variety. Send just a few you love, so I'm not overwhelmed, and tell me how to credit you (full name or truncated how). Those can go by messenger or by e-mail to Sandra@SandraDodd.com (and larger files are fine).

SandraDodd.com
tree art by Bo King
cake photo by Sandra Dodd
photos by many different people at the repeat/again links

P.S. I want the website to last a long time, so if I'm not able to collect funding assistance someday, maybe find Holly Dodd or Vlad Gurdiga and see if they need financial help keeping it going. It's a bit less than $20 a month these days; might go up as things might do. Thanks.

Seeing; doing; being

Jenny Cyphers wrote:

In the newer days years ago, what helped more than anything else was to actually see my kids and what they were actually doing. I would try to see the world from their eyes and see how they lit up and give them more of that. Just being with them and enjoying them for who they were regardless of what they were doing, watching tv, playing dress up, whatever helped keep my energy focused on them, rather than on fear of what they weren't or weren't doing.

—Jenny Cyphers

original writing, at Always Learning
photo by Sadie Bugni

Simply safer

Sometimes I would say "Hold on to something! I'm going to hold on to Marty!" so that it wasn't just a thing 'kids had to do,' but was a safety condition of crowdedness.

Now that I'm older, I still sometimes want to hold on to one of my kids when we're out, but now it's because I'm safer if they help me. Holly has held my hand crossing streets just this year, and she's 21. Marty and Kirby have helped me down stairs and off of steep curbs.

It's not just for children.

---

Update:
Holly is in her 30s, and still helpful to me and her dad. She, or I, or Keith will hold the hand of a grandchild, pretty often (Holly's nieces).

SandraDodd.com/safe
or
Being a safe place
photo by Holly Dodd

TV, games, or any video media

Years back, a group of families traded babysitting. Kirby had a favorite family to visit, where there were several kids who knew and liked him. When interviewed ten years later, I responded:

When Kirby was four or five, they had a Nintendo and we didn't, but [they] kept it up in the closet. Once Kirby played it, he always wanted to play it when he went over. Our simple solution to that was to buy him a Nintendo. After that, when he went to their house, he played in the yard.

They only used their TV for the Nintendo (when it was out, for a measured session) or for videos (sometimes, not much). When those kids came to our house, they only wanted to watch TV.... If TV has never been limited or demonized, it will never be so mesmerizing.

There is another factor that will make it mesmerizing for children: depression and a need to escape. Kids who hate their lives are better off focusing on the TV so strongly that they don't even see the wall behind it. Sometimes it's their only way out of the room. ... But if the TV is just one of a myriad of interesting things, and the room is a happy place, and there are others watching TV and it will lead to conversations, singing, research, drawing, play-acting and dress-up, it's not so mesmerizing.

SandraDodd.com/screentime.html
photo by Sandra Dodd, of Kirby (middle)
playing with a five-year-old, in 2014 or so

---

That day, what came out to the interviewer was "Kids who hate their lives..." but any kid who is stressed and stuck might need such an escape; it's not unhealthy.

Be the safest place

Instead of requiring that my kids had to hold my hand in a parking lot, I would park near a cart and put some kids in right away, or tell them to hold on to the cart (a.k.a. "help me push", so a kid can be between me and the cart). And they didn't have to hold a hand. There weren't enough hands. I'd say "Hold on to something," and it might be my jacket, or the strap of the sling, or the backpack, or something.

I've seen other people's children run away from them in parking lots, and the parents yell and threaten. At that moment, going back to the mom seems the most dangerous option.

Make yourself your child's safest place in the world, and many of your old concerns will just disappear.

SandraDodd.com/safe
photo by Sandra Dodd

A nest for learning

My definition for unschooling is creating and maintaining an environment in which natural learning can thrive. The environment I’m talking about—what we sometimes call an unschooling nest—is not just the physical home, it’s the relationships within the family and the exploration of the world outside the home by parents and children both. The emotional environment is crucial.

SandraDodd.com/parentschange
photo by Denaire Nixon

Helping teens

Written when Holly Dodd was 18 (2009), of when she was in her mid-teens:

Holly has had a few jobs. One was working at a skateboard and clothing store in a mall a few miles away. One was working at a flower shop just a few hundred yards away; she walked. But the shop had another shop on the air base, and sometimes she worked there, so she had a base pass and a key to both shops. When Holly's jobs require driving, we let her use a car. Some of her school-attending friends are told they can't get a job unless they buy a car first. It seems to be a way for the parents to say no and then blame the kids for it.

Some mainstream families press their teenaged children to get jobs, and shame them if they fail, while putting conditions on when and where they can work. The result is that getting a job was just one more "do what the parents make you do" situation, and the jobs aren't fun; they're an extension of school and of parental control.

When teens or young adults have chosen to have a job without desperation for money, and when they are accustomed to learning all the time and living joyfully, they are a different sort of employee.

SandraDodd.com/jobs/bigbook
photo by Cathy Koetsier