Tangents are the good parts

Even two people reading the same book are gleaning different things from it, or maybe one is just looking at the photos. Marty and I pulled down several books with sections about The Black Death of the 14th century. We weren't "reading the books," we were using them as reference materials for details and stories. But as sometimes happens, other interesting parts jumped out at us, just from having the books in our hands and using the index, or flipping through.

The tangents are the good parts.

SandraDodd.com/reallearning
photo by Sandra Dodd

Games, toys, museums, trips, books...

I cringe when I hear/read/see a mom thinking unschooling will take less effort and cost less than having children in public school. Anyone unschooling to save time and money is going the wrong direction. It might cost less in absolutely-required expenditure compared to buying a curriculum or paying private school tuition, and most unschoolers I know are content with plain or used or funky clothes (compared to school uniforms or required fashions and name brand things that might get stolen or lost at school). But if parents don't want to spend ANY money on games, toys, museums, out-of-town trips, books, whatever it is the kids might be interested in, then I think that's not the best the parents could do as unschoolers.

SandraDodd.com/nest
photo by Cátia Maciel

Experiences and conversations

Pam Sorooshian wrote:

Unschooling is not leaving kids to their own devices until they show an interest in learning a given subject.

Unschoolers do not expect interests to arise out of nothing.

As an unschooling parent I offer ideas, information, activities, starting points, and material to my children as opportune moments arise, not out of nothing, but out of the experiences that are created by mindful living in the world—walking in the woods, visiting museums, watching movies, reading books, going to the theater, swimming in the ocean. Every moment in life offers opportunities for learning and investigation.

We went to the Rose Parade and my 12 yo daughter wondered aloud why it doesn't smell like roses even when you're right up close to the floats. There was a great opportunity to talk about plants being grown for various purposes—and how that is done—tomatoes raised for transportability rather than taste, flowers for longlastingness rather than aroma.

—Pam Sorooshian

SandraDodd.com/pam/learningworld
photo by Catherine Forest

Sewers in games, literature, art...

In April 2013, Stephanie Meloche wrote:

My son is interested in underground sewers. He's building a large network of sewers in Minecraft right now. Do you have any ideas for links, books, resources for us? We thought of movies like Turtle Ninja and Les Misérables but what else? He's 11. Thank you very much!

There were six pages of responses. You'll be impressed, I think.

SandraDodd.com/sewer
image from a short video by "Duddrz",
"How to build super easy Sewers in Minecraft! tutorial"

Open portals

When books are an obsession, it's considered a virtue. When mathematics is an obsession it's considered genius. When history is an obsession, that's scholarly.

When rock and roll is an obsession or folk art, or dance… maybe not as easily impressive to the outside world. But as all things are connected, let your child see the world from the portals that open to him, and don't press him to get in line at an entryway that doesn't sparkle and beckon.


from page 189 (or 218) of The Big Book, which links to SandraDodd.com/obsessions/feedpassions
photo by Lynda Raina

Stories, music, light and movement

a mom named Lisa wrote:

There is plenty of value in TV/movies. It's as much of a dream world for kids as books (if not more). I know it can be frustrating when it's all new to you... I can't tell you how many times I wondered if I wasn't doing something horrible by letting my children watch as much TV as they wanted. I was sure it would backfire and that it would make my kids passive.

They're still lovely and beautiful and full of life....driven from the inside instead of following my lead so much.

Relax and enjoy the wonder of your child. 🙂

—Lisa

That's the end of something sweet, and longer, at SandraDodd.com/t/whatif

photos by Rosie Moon (stained glass)
and Kelly Halldorson (wood stove)

I brought these pictures to a TV post for being older versions of moving-light images. They are associated with stories, and with music, too. Television and film are related, culturally and historically.

What John Holt didn't know

NOTE FROM SANDRA: I was speaking, not writing, so when you get past that stuttery beginning, it might flow.

---

One thing that John Holt, when he was writing about Teach Your Own, he, too, had a curriculum in mind. He, too, was thinking, not "Teach a curriculum," but "Do this, instead of school, until school is out, and then you will be done, and it will be cool, you will have dodged the bullet, you will have missed out on the damage of school." That’s worthy all by itself.

But John Holt didn’t have any children. He didn’t actually do what he was writing about people doing. I respect him, I love his books, I am glad he did what he did. But then people come along, after that, and they do it. And then they shared that with each other, and then people did it better than they saw their families do it. Other families say, “Well, I wish I hadn’t done this; it was all right, but oh, I wish we had done this." And so entire lives of young people have been lived now since John Holt died, who didn’t go to school. And what those families discovered, that John Holt could not have known, is that if you live your life receptive to the learning around you, accepting of input, appreciative of the other people around you who know things, and of the resources around you, and trying not to be prejudiced against input like television and videogame and comic book, then what happens is, the parents' learning kicks back in. The parents, who probably had sort of calcified because of school, they soften back up, and they start to want to learn. And so they are learning along with their children, or in a parallel-play kind of way. They might all be in the same place all learning different things, sharing the good parts.

Family Bonding (recorded interview and transcript)
SandraDodd.com/familybonding
photo by Sandra Dodd
of Keith and Holly, 2015

Aversion and motivation

Bob Collier wrote:

After Pat quit school, he refused to read a book. He hates them. Thank you school for teaching my son to hate reading books. My son has never read a book since school and that was five years ago. He's had not even one minute of a reading lesson since school. Yet his reading is excellent. He developed his reading skills from reading videogame manuals and web pages of cheats and walkthroughs and from videogames themselves, some of which have an enormous amount of text in the gameplay that you need to be able to read to play at all.

Pat's motivation for developing his reading skills came not from being told it was something he needed but from his own understanding of how it would help him get what he wanted.

There's no more powerful form of motivation, probably.

—Bob Collier
(whose son left school at seven)

SandraDodd.com/game/reading
photo by Gail Higgins

Q&A—Agenda

Question:

Are we teaching anything or learning side by side or allowing them to self express?

Sandra:

Those aren't your only choices. They're learning, we're learning, we're all expressing ourselves, and when life is very rich and lush, learning grows like crazy.

Question:

Can you go into detail about the idea of making things available and having an agenda?

Sandra:

Is "making things available" a reference to dance and karate classes and social opportunities, or to toys and music and books and cash and games? We've tried to give our kids lots of access to people and places and things. The agenda was that they would learn and be happy.

SandraDodd.com/panel
photo by Cátia Maciel

How (and why) to help kids

I would help my kids with anything they needed help with, if I had the time and patience. When I didn't do so, I wasn't being the best mom I knew I could be.

I read video game directions to them just as I read books to them or song lyrics or cereal boxes or menus. I assisted them in the world until they chose to function without me. They still do ask for help sometimes, of other sorts, because they trust me to help, so it was an unforeseen investment in the future of our relationships.

Holly played a game called Harvest Moon quite a bit before she could read. I made her some charts to help, and I would come and read, and from printouts of internet hints and details, I made her a booklet so she could decide which crops to plant, and printed out a calendar of the Harvest Moon year, because there are seasons and festivals that factor in to decisions sometimes.

SandraDodd.com/panel
Unschooling Panel Follow-Up (HSC 2007)

photo by Sandra Dodd
of my kids' actual things

A learning world

Pam Sorooshian wrote:

Unschooling is not leaving kids to their own devices until they show an interest in learning a given subject.

Unschoolers do not expect interests to arise out of nothing.

As an unschooling parent I offer ideas, information, activities, starting points, and material to my children as opportune moments arise, not out of nothing, but out of the experiences that are created by mindful living in the world—walking in the woods, visiting museums, watching movies, reading books, going to the theater, swimming in the ocean. Every moment in life offers opportunities for learning and investigation.

. . . .
Unschooling families live in a learning world—no division of life into school time and not-school time.

—Pam Sorooshian

SandraDodd.com/pam/learningworld
photo by Karen James

As kids deschool...

Kids who haven't been to school are different, but here is
Joyce Fetteroll's advice for helping kids deschool when needed:

The best thing you can do while they're deschooling is let them play. And help them play. Make play dates. Make sure they have things they enjoy playing with. *Be* with them. Find out why they enjoy something so much. When they feel free—rule of thumb is one month for each year they've been in school, starting from the time when you last pressured them to learn something—be more active about running things through their lives: movies, TV shows, books, places to go: ethnic restaurants, museums, monster truck pulls, walks in the woods, funky stores ....

Look for the delight in life and it will infect your kids. 😊 As long as it's *honest* interest and delight! If it's fake interest to get them to pay attention to something you think would be good for them, they're going to notice and avoid it. It's the tactic they've been awash in since kindergarten: "Learning is Fun!"

—Joyce Fetteroll

SandraDodd.com/joyce/deschooling
photo by Cátia Maciel

Learning let loose

Joyce Fetteroll wrote:

Don't worry if you don't know the answers. Anyone can look up the answers. Few can ask the questions.

As a real-life example, by watching Xena and reading Little Town on the Prairie, my daughter was exposed to three references to Julius Caesar, Brutus, and Marc Antony. She doesn't "know" Roman history now, but she's got a hook or point of reference to build from tomorrow, next week, three years from now: "You remember Julius Caesar. The guy Xena hates."

Unfortunately we learned in school that learning is locked up in books and reading is the only way to get to it. It's not. It's free. We're surrounded by it. We just need to relearn how to recognize it in its wild state.

—Joyce Fetteroll

Five Steps to Unschooling
https://sandradodd.com/joyce/steps
photo by Roya Dedeaux

How much?

Unschooling doesn't need to be expensive, but anyone choosing unschooling simply to save money is making a mistake. If parents don't want to spend any money on games, toys, museums, out-of-town trips, books, or whatever it is the kids might be interested in, then unschooling will not work at their house.

One doesn't need to be rich to unschool, but it takes dedication and focus, creativity and resourcefulness.

SandraDodd.com/unschoolingcost
photo by Jihong Tang

Experiencing direct learning

I am so certain that learning comes from experiences and touching, hearing, seeing, smelling and tasting that in light of natural learning, books seem flat and dry.

SandraDodd.com/r/hollydodd
photo by Sandra Dodd

Reading odyssey

Though Holly wasn't reading, her vocabulary was sophisticated and she was fascinated by the history of and connectedness of words. When she did start to read, she had no reason to use easy books. She was still eleven when she did her first real reading, a Judy Blume novel. She read two of those, and moved on to Stephen King's novella The Body.

When she had only been reading a couple of months, we were sitting down to watch "The Twilight Zone,” Holly reached over to move the Tank Girl comic books she had been reading. One was called "The Odyssey." Then the DVD menu came up, and one of the episodes was "The Odyssey of Flight 33." She commented on it, and I said "You saw the word 'odyssey' twice in an hour? Cool!"

She said, "I saw the word 'odyssey' twice in one minute!"
. . . .Reading will happen, and if it takes longer for your children than you think it will, keep them happy and distracted in the meantime. As their experience and vocabulary grow, their reading will be that much more effortless the day they're fully equipped to understand the written word.

SandraDodd.com/r/threereaders
photo by Sandra Dodd (click it)

Learning by looking, doing, exploring

Meredith Novak wrote:

It's good to know that it's not necessary to totally understand everything you read (or listen to) the first time through. I think that's one of the misconceptions people get from school's "read it and answer the questions" format. It's okay to skim through something the first time and just get a general idea, then, if you're still interested, go back and read for more detail later - maybe after reading or hearing something else, first, that clarifies those details.

But that's learning in the sense of "taking in information" - and learning is more than that. Learning also comes from doing things, exploring objects and processes, places and ideas. Much as I like storing up facts like a magpie, I do most of my learning by taking things apart and putting them back together. If I have a question, I'm as likely to look for a person to show me what I need as I am to look for a book. I *can* figure things out from books, but often I can learn the same thing more effectively by watching someone else.

—Meredith

SandraDodd.com/awareness
photo by Roya Dedeaux

Enemies and monsters

Once I commented on one from a list of "truths" on a correspondent's blog:

This is not at all true. It has been claimed for years, but it’s nonsense.

18. Television turns you into a hypnotic state where the viewer switches off completely and is drawn into the world of the idiot box (well, that’s why it’s called that – an idiot box) for it doesn’t enable a two-way communication. Not even a silent one because you go numb.

If that were true, how much worse would books be? Plays?

I have collected accounts for twenty years of the learning that comes from television and video. People like to have enemies and monsters, sometimes, and “Screentime” is an easy boogey-man. SandraDodd.com/screentime/

---

The blogger had already changed her mind about it before I commented, after having discovered my site, she said. I believe her. The post was a few years old when I objected.

SandraDodd.com/clarity
photo by Sara McGrath

If mathematics is easy for a person...

Disclaimers: Unschooling doesn't ensure mathematical ability.

I wrote this before Marty got a degree in economics. They were 18 or older before taking any classes, and only needed to pay for the books.

---

My kids all caught up with formal math in a semester or two of community college. Marty did up to calculus. Kirby only took one class but makes use of math all the time in his work and play, and is good with money and loans and banking and all that practical life stuff.

Holly took three classes, I think. Maybe two. Liked it; it wasn't difficult. There were people in class with her bemoaning the difficulty, and they had been in school for twelve years or more, taking math classes.

---

That was written in 2014. Their paid employment and their hobbies, since then, have involved some or all of logistics, statistics, financial accounting, coding/programming, inventory and cash handling. What they learned in class was the notation used to communicate mathematical ideas "on paper" in our culture.

Some of their facility might have been inherited genetically from their mathish dad. That's fair, too.

SandraDodd.com/math/schoolmath
photo by Shawn Smythe Haunschild

The urge to control

If the "control force" is great with you, maybe use it to control your own clutter or organize your papers or rearrange your books or clothing. File your photos and negatives. Scan some stuff. Don't turn that awful control beam on people you love.

SandraDodd.com/control
photo by Sandra Dodd