Immersion

Robin Bentley wrote:

Seeing kids immerse themselves and being okay with their immersion can be enlightening for a parent!

—Robin
(original)

SandraDodd.com/focus
photo by Rosie Moon

Unique and interesting

Learning to respect that people are different makes us better people.

Assuming a child will (if you don't screw him all up) grow into a unique and interesting person with a lifetime of connections is a cornerstone of really successful unschooling.

Focus, Hobbies, Obsessions (chat transcript)
https://sandradodd.com/chats/bigbook/page186-191_focusHobbie.html

photo by Roya Dedeaux

"We’ll see how things go."

Laurie Wolfrum, the beginning of a presentation, and the end of the handout for it:

Sometimes parents, relatives, friends (even strangers!) may not agree with homeschooling, unschooling, how we choose to parent or meet our children’s needs.

How do we do what we feel is best for our families when others, especially those we love and care about, share their criticisms and well-meaning advice?
. . . .
Some phrases to keep in mind:

Periodically we evaluate how things are going.
Nothing is written in stone.
For now, this works for us.
We’ll see how things go.

—Laurie Wolfrum

"Pass the Bean Dip"
SandraDodd.com/beandip
photo by Cathy Koetsier

Together, happily

Amy Kidwell wrote:

I had always wanted to learn to live in the moment, but it seemed a great mystery. Having my daughter and becoming an unschooler, I finally get it! Most days, anyway... I'm not worried about the future, or fussing over the past. We are living together, happily, every day. What a nice way to be."

—Amy Kidwell

SandraDodd.com/feedback
photo by Sandra Dodd

Don't trivialize "trivia"

What is trivia? For school kids, trivia is (by definition) a waste of time. It’s something that will not be on the test. It’s “extra” stuff. For unschoolers, though, in the wide new world in which EVERYTHING counts, there can be no trivia in that sense.

SandraDodd.com/trivia
photo by Tara Joe Farrell,
in Cerillos, New Mexico

We really like it.

Paula L, in a brainstorming discussion about jobs:

And the list didn't mention cleaning and organizing businesses! My husband and I started our business, Simple Solutions, 16 months ago. You can do very well financially if you want to push the hours and even maybe hire employees. Right now we work a combined total of 40 hours a week—we take turns working so one of us is with Andy. We have no desire to make this a big venture. It's just the two of us. We will be raising our rate soon. We are not rich, but we are getting by just fine, better than ever before. And we have virtually NO overhead expenses, which is awesome. We're even getting a pretty good tax return.

Best of all, we really like it. 🙂

—Paula L

Stories about Jobs
photo by Karen James, of her workspace,
new wallpaint, her own organization

One tricky moment

Deb wrote:

If we recognize a difficult moment as one tricky moment in a day of potential great moments we're more likely to have a better attitude all day long.

—Deb Lewis

SandraDodd.com/mistakes
photo by Irene Adams

Hold on

Kelli Traaseth wrote:

Hold onto each day, know how quickly they pass. Kiss those tiny heads of toddlers and babies; smell their heads, as my friend Sandra says. Before you know it, they'll be playing a game together and you won't even need to explain the rules to them. In fact you'll have a hard time comprehending the game.

Time... must you keep marching on? by Kelli Traaseth
photo by Sandra Dodd

Don't make it weird.

For unschooling to work in that solid, twelve-or-twenty-year way, it should be about kids, and learning, and relationships and peace, not about being weird for the sake of weird, or being anti-government.

SandraDodd.com/nest
photo by Cass Kotrba

Principles, rules, and coaching

Sandra Dodd:

Principles produce all kinds of answers where rules fail.

Alex Polikowsky:

Some people come to unschooling and in the beginning of their journey they ditch rules but try to replace them with unschooling "rules". Replace them with principles.

When you do, most of your questions and doubts will no longer be there.

Michele James-Parham:

Another common "unschooling rule" or frame of mind due to misinterpretation: We're unschoolers and don't have rules, so we don't have to follow your rules (in-laws, restaurant, museum, etc.).

Just because you allow jumping on your couch at home, doesn't mean that Grandma has to allow jumping on her couch or that the museum has to allow jumping on its couch in the lobby.

SandraDodd.com/coaching
photo by Belinda Dutch

Deciding what's good

People can say "no judgment" but people cannot think without making judgments. People can't make any choices without deciding moment to moment what's good, what's better, what's a bad choice.

SandraDodd.com/judgment
photo by Colleen Prieto

The Past, the Future and Now

If you're living in the past, that's a problem for now.

If you're living in the future too much—
       in the future that you're imagining,
       in the future that you're predicting,
       in the future that you would like to imagine you can control,
       in the future that you'd like to imagine you can even imagine,
              that's a problem.

So it's good to aim for living in the moment in a whole way—your whole self, not separated from your past or your future, but also not really over-focussed on it.

If you bank on the future, literally, that's a good idea. Savings is a good idea. I'm not saying not to have life insurance or things like that—that's great. But banking on it figuratively can be a big problem.

SandraDodd.com/listen/london2011
(at 10:15 in the sound file)
photo by Sandra Dodd of layers of ice that formed in buckets of collected rainwater in which hulls of bird seed had fallen, pulled out of the buckets, for fun

When to say no

Sandra Dodd, response in 2000 to: Can anyone explain to me "unschooling"?

It's like "just say no."

Just say no to school years and school schedules and school expectations, school habits and fears and terminology. Just say no to separating the world into important and unimportant things, into separating knowledge into math, science, history and language arts, with music, art and "PE" set in their less important little places.

Most of unschooling has to happen inside the parents. They need to spend some time sorting out what is real from what is construct, and what occurs in nature from what only occurs in school (and then in the minds of those who were told school was real life, school was a kid's fulltime job, school was more important than anything, school would keep them from being ignorant, school would make them happy and rich and right).

It's what happens after all that school stuff is banished from your life.

Several Definitions of Unschooling
photo by Rosie Moon

Teaching is a problem.

"Teaching" is a problem, in an unschooling light. Learning is the goal, and teaching gets in the way.

SandraDodd.com/teaching
photo by Leon McNeill, of Holly Dodd looking at the original Bayeux Tapestry,
in France in 2005

Instead of schoolish ideas...

Rebeccas Justus, when she was new to unschooling, created an inspired and inspiring list of the differences between schoolishness and unschooling. There are two dozen sets. Here are a few to make your day lighter:

---

instead of "Instill knowledge" :

Trust that learning is natural; trust that children are interested in life

instead of "Follow a schedule" :

Flow with the moment, with the inspiration

instead of "Memorize facts" :

Understand stories

SandraDodd.com/unschool/difference
photo by Jo Isaac

A bond of inquiry

A mom named Sandy:

To most children or people it is apparent and that is only one of MANY examples of simple things that he questions.

A mom named Sandra:

If it wasn't apparent to him, so what? He asked you a question that had a simple answer. If you expect him to be other than who he is, or if you withhold simple answers, he'll learn to stop asking you. Not good.

Questions are gloriously good for unschooling. And it's possible that he understands some situations better than you do and his questions are deeper than you think they are. Try asking him a question in return. Give a simple answer and then ask a question to help him clarify what he really wants to know. It will help both of you learn to think analytically, and create a bond of inquiry and shared experience between you.

Same old link as yesterday
a good, short discussion in which the original poster untangles and rethinks
photo by Nicole Kenyon

Learning gently

Don't have him around others who will tease him. That's the main benefit of homeschooling, being away from bullies. Don't bully or tease him and don't let anyone else do it either.

Unschooling really depends on helping kids gently get to their own learning in their own way. Wanting them to conform uniformly and on schedule isn't the way unschooling works.

An archived discussion with a bad name, but good info
photo by Jo Isaac

Simple fun

We just had our 33rd wedding anniversary last week. Someone wished me well on my page and said she hoped we did something fun. I said we had transplanted mint and pulled some weeds (or something), and she said (nicely, joking) she meant MORE fun. But maybe the way to stay happily married for many years is to have fun transplanting mint...

—Sandra Dodd
(married over 41 years now
and that mint is still happy)

SandraDodd.com/laundry
photo by Sandra Dodd
of some of that mint, off season

It's fall, today. In early summer, that mint is thick and happy. We planted it around three or four rocks. Over the years Keith has added more cool rocks.

A series of choices

Me/Sandra, in response to the mom of a youngish boy who sometimes agreed to do something, but when the time came, he was reluctant:

I do have a practical suggestion. Don't make it all or nothing. Say maybe "Let's just drive over there and see if you feel differently," or see if he's hungry or doesn't like his shoes or something plain and practical. Maybe he doesn't want to miss a program; can you record it? Maybe he doesn't want to go out in the cold. Maybe if he does get in the car and get there, maybe he'll want to go in. Maybe it's the being at rest that he doesn't want to change.

Maybe you could say "Let's go and watch a while, and then if you want to come home we can." If he gets all the way in and sees the other kids, he might want to stay, or he might not.

The final decision doesn't need to be made before you leave or even after you get there. Every moment can be another "pass or play" point.

Instead of looking at it as a "commitment," think of it as a series of choices.

UnschoolingDiscussion—Commitments, 2006
photo by Sandra Dodd
of Marty Dodd at 9 years old.
He finished the season, but didn't want to return because of the pressure other kids' dads were putting on them to WIN and to be aggressive.

What John Holt didn't know

NOTE FROM SANDRA: I was speaking, not writing, so when you get past that stuttery beginning, it might flow.

---

One thing that John Holt, when he was writing about Teach Your Own, he, too, had a curriculum in mind. He, too, was thinking, not "Teach a curriculum," but "Do this, instead of school, until school is out, and then you will be done, and it will be cool, you will have dodged the bullet, you will have missed out on the damage of school." That’s worthy all by itself.

But John Holt didn’t have any children. He didn’t actually do what he was writing about people doing. I respect him, I love his books, I am glad he did what he did. But then people come along, after that, and they do it. And then they shared that with each other, and then people did it better than they saw their families do it. Other families say, “Well, I wish I hadn’t done this; it was all right, but oh, I wish we had done this." And so entire lives of young people have been lived now since John Holt died, who didn’t go to school. And what those families discovered, that John Holt could not have known, is that if you live your life receptive to the learning around you, accepting of input, appreciative of the other people around you who know things, and of the resources around you, and trying not to be prejudiced against input like television and videogame and comic book, then what happens is, the parents' learning kicks back in. The parents, who probably had sort of calcified because of school, they soften back up, and they start to want to learn. And so they are learning along with their children, or in a parallel-play kind of way. They might all be in the same place all learning different things, sharing the good parts.

Family Bonding (recorded interview and transcript)
SandraDodd.com/familybonding
photo by Sandra Dodd
of Keith and Holly, 2015

Checking and comparing

Someone asked:

Do you still look at standards for certain grade levels only so that the state leave you alone or do you just wait until they say something and show them what your kid can do?

Sandra:

I used to look from time to time at APS (Albuquerque Public Schools) Expected Competencies, or the World Book list or something similar, but now I look maybe every two years.

In New Mexico they're not going to ask you to show what your child can do. And when you're with your child in busy learning-situations every day, you'll see the learning just take off!

That was my 2002 answer, when my youngest was 10. I quit checking "should be" lists at some point. We were fortunate to live where that was a good option.

SandraDodd.com/questions
photo by Gail Higgins

Deschooling...is to sit and think

Nicole Kenyon wrote, December 25, 2020:

My husband came home the other day saying he had the perfect Christmas present for our 9 year old son - a gel blaster toy gun. He was beaming and so happy. My first thought was "oh no, not a gun!" ... [and then I've left out the angsty part, and the Swiss-army...gun story, and the mom's transformative thoughts...]

Deschooling for me is sometimes not to act straight away but to sit and think about it. Is it a pattern the media has fed you? Where is the "no way" coming from?

While I wrote this story my husband and child are down in the living room and enjoying life, making little cardboard targets, laughing and having a great time. ❤

—Nicole Kenyon

Toy Guns
SandraDodd.com/peace/guns
You can read what I left out, and if you can get to facebook you can read (linked from that page) comments at the time.
photo by Supriya and Aseem's Mom

Quickly but gradually...

Instead of just going from lots of control to "do whatever you want," a really sweet way to do it is quickly but gradually. Quickly in your head, but not all of a sudden in theirs. Just allow yourself to say "okay" or "sure!" anytime it's not really going to be a problem.

If something isn't going to hurt anything (going barefoot, wearing the orange jacket with the pink dress, eating a donut, not coming to dinner because it's the good part of a game/show/movie, staying up later, dancing) you can just say "Okay."

And then later instead of "aren't you glad I let you do that? Don't expect it every time," you could say something reinforcing for both of you, like "That really looked like fun," or "It felt better for me to say yes than to say no. I should say 'yes' more," or something conversational but real.

The purpose of that is to help ease them from the controlling patterns to a more moment-based and support-based decision making mindset. If they want to do something and you say yes in an unusual way (unusual to them), communication will help. That way they'll know you really meant to say yes, that it wasn't a fluke, or you just being too distracted to notice what they were doing.

SandraDodd.com/eating/control.html
photo by Cátia Maciel

Aversion and motivation

Bob Collier wrote:

After Pat quit school, he refused to read a book. He hates them. Thank you school for teaching my son to hate reading books. My son has never read a book since school and that was five years ago. He's had not even one minute of a reading lesson since school. Yet his reading is excellent. He developed his reading skills from reading videogame manuals and web pages of cheats and walkthroughs and from videogames themselves, some of which have an enormous amount of text in the gameplay that you need to be able to read to play at all.

Pat's motivation for developing his reading skills came not from being told it was something he needed but from his own understanding of how it would help him get what he wanted.

There's no more powerful form of motivation, probably.

—Bob Collier
(whose son left school at seven)

SandraDodd.com/game/reading
photo by Gail Higgins

Healing and replenishing

Shan Burton wrote:

Food you want, served to you by someone who loves you and brings it to you with a smile and a hug, has magical powers to heal and replenish the soul as well as the body.

—Shan Burton

SandraDodd.com/serviceResponse
photo by Robyn Coburn

Thinking, clearly and confidently

Writing is thinking clearly. For unschoolers writing will be helped by a kid having the confidence that if someone asks him about a movie or the lyrics of a song, that person will listen to his report, and to his opinion, and if he's misheard the words or misunderstood the plot, that they will help him understand it.

a nice match for Untangling Ideas, but the quote is from Seeing Writing
photo by Jihong Tang

Ask yourself "why?"

Robyn Coburn wrote:

Every time you feel the urge to control a choice, you can ask yourself "why?" and begin to question the assumptions (or fears) about children, parenting, learning and living joyfully that you are holding on to.

—Robyn Coburn

SandraDodd.com/option
photo by Sandra Dodd

Words might kinda hurt you

Heather Booth wrote:

One of the things that helped when I started unschooling was becoming aware of the words I used. The clearer I became in my thoughts and the more aware of the impact of my words, the better I was at being an unschooling parent. I want to discuss with my group the power of words. "Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch" and "Say yes more" are great phrases to get you going in the right direction but if you are still saying "have to" or "junk food " or "screen time" then you're stuck in negative thoughts.

—Heather Booth

Weed Away Words
photo by Sandra Dodd

---

To any non-English speakers who don't get the title, we have an old saying that "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." The post's name is in the rhythm of the end of that; it has scansion.

Quiet enough to hear

Sarah Thompson wrote:

They don't need my direction much of the time, but they need me to pay attention to what is happening *in case* I'm needed. I need to be quiet so I'm not filling up their world with my noise, and so that *I* can hear as well.

—Sarah Thompson

SandraDodd.com/quiet
photo by Susan Gaissert

Small steps

Good bits lifted from a 2015 post:

Too often “do the best you can” is used to excuse letting things slide.
Think more about the children than about how you feel about thinking about them. It will help you when they feel better.

...read a little, try a little, wait a while and watch...

Don’t think you can change all at once, but if you see how much difference small steps can make, perhaps you can focus on not making anything worse, and stepping gently but steadily toward a more confident presence.

—Sandra
(original)

Small, simple steps
photo by Janine Davies

Look directly; join in

Karen James wrote:

When you look at your children, see *them*, not the ideas of peace, joy, success or failure. Notice what your children are engaged in. Join them when you can. If one of your children is cutting paper, quietly join in, even if only for a moment. When another child is playing Lego on the floor, get down there and put a few pieces together with her. One girl is drawing, do some doodles. One girl is playing Minecraft, notice what she's building. Ask her about it (if your question doesn't interrupt her). As you join your children you will begin to get a sense for what they enjoy. Build on what you learn about them.

—Karen James
(from a longer original)

Karen listed two links, in the post quoted above:
SandraDodd.com/breathing
and
SandraDodd.com/badmoment
photo by Cátia Maciel

Optimistic reality

Sometimes people say, "Anyone can unschool." And I always cringe when they do that, because the same kind of people who write or say things like that in public tend not to be the people who are going to stick around and walk people through it, and help other people do it. It just sounds good, it’s cheery, it’s inclusive, and it's wrong.

SandraDodd.com/whocanunschool
Who Can Unschool?
(short sound file, and transcript)

photo by DenaireNixon

Calm and calming

Sandra Dodd:

If there is more resentment and negativity than there is love and sweetness, that family is not succeeding at unschooling, in my opinion. It's not about "always" or "never." It's about preponderance.

Laura Zurro:

Sandra, can you explain what you mean by calm?

Sandra Dodd:

Calm is calm. Not frantic, not excited, not frightened or frightening. Calm, like water that is neither frozen nor choppy.

Calm is possessing the ability to think, to consider a situation without panic.

Calm is not perpetually on the edge of flipping out.

Alex Polikowsky:

Laura, I think it is when parents can remain calm under stress. I had to work on that sometimes. My oldest used to have huge tantrums and I would lose my calm. When I learned to remain calm I was much more helpful to him.

quote from Who Can Unschool?

More calming ideas
photo by Cathy Koetsier

Q&A—Agenda

Question:

Are we teaching anything or learning side by side or allowing them to self express?

Sandra:

Those aren't your only choices. They're learning, we're learning, we're all expressing ourselves, and when life is very rich and lush, learning grows like crazy.

Question:

Can you go into detail about the idea of making things available and having an agenda?

Sandra:

Is "making things available" a reference to dance and karate classes and social opportunities, or to toys and music and books and cash and games? We've tried to give our kids lots of access to people and places and things. The agenda was that they would learn and be happy.

SandraDodd.com/panel
photo by Cátia Maciel

Let them live THEIR childhoods

Someone (who was against video games) wrote:

Being exposed to new stuff is what will generate new interests.

I responded:

If they're being "exposed" to new stuff just to generate new interests, though, they could easily decide to resist and avoid the new stuff, long for video games, and not trust or desire time with mom.

Wanting kids to do what mom envisioned her own ideal childhood to be is a trap to be avoided. Don't try to get them to live YOUR missed childhood. Let them live theirs, or they will miss both.

How important is your child?
photo by Alex Polikowski, of a computer her son built, with her help, when he was younger. That son is grown and an engineering student now.

Tricked by "knowledge"

Meredith Novak wrote:

A great deal of parenting "wisdom" is made up of things "everyone knows" because everyone repeats them back and forth, over and over. Like "you have to go to school to learn" and "children need rules". Some of the things "everyone knows" are completely wrong, but because "everyone knows" them, it's very, very difficult for people to change their attitudes even in the presence of evidence to the contrary.

It was really shocking for me to discover just how much of what I "knew" was a result of that repetition. I accounted myself an intelligent, thoughtful person, with strong "alternative" viewpoints, but most of what I thought I knew about parenting was based in a kind of cultural conditioning. The ideas in my head weren't my own. That's humbling.

—Meredith

SandraDodd.com/sugar
photo by Sandra Dodd

How (and why) to help kids

I would help my kids with anything they needed help with, if I had the time and patience. When I didn't do so, I wasn't being the best mom I knew I could be.

I read video game directions to them just as I read books to them or song lyrics or cereal boxes or menus. I assisted them in the world until they chose to function without me. They still do ask for help sometimes, of other sorts, because they trust me to help, so it was an unforeseen investment in the future of our relationships.

Holly played a game called Harvest Moon quite a bit before she could read. I made her some charts to help, and I would come and read, and from printouts of internet hints and details, I made her a booklet so she could decide which crops to plant, and printed out a calendar of the Harvest Moon year, because there are seasons and festivals that factor in to decisions sometimes.

SandraDodd.com/panel
Unschooling Panel Follow-Up (HSC 2007)

photo by Sandra Dodd
of my kids' actual things

Two new views

To get to the kinds of relationships being advocated here, a mom needs to let go of many things, two of which are the image of the person she wanted to be separate from her children, as though she didn't have children at all, and then get rid of the vision of her children as ideal mother-worshipping accessories.

SandraDodd.com/change/growth
photo by Tam King

Competitive efficiency

One problem that comes up is efficiency. The idea of the glory of efficiency can be a problem. Because people get competitive, we’re all keeping track of how quickly we got into university and how soon we got out. Or how many minutes we take to get dinner on the table. “Oh, well, I can do that meal in 30 minutes!” “Well, I can do that meal in 20 minutes!”

Unschooling isn’t like that at all, even in the long term it’s not about the completion of a project at all. It’s about becoming the sort of people who see and appreciate and trust that learning can happen. And who can travel with children, not just drag them along or push them along, but who can travel with children along those interesting paths together not until you get there, but indefinitely.

And for beginning unschoolers that sounds also a little esoteric, a little foofy. And not solid. They want to know what do I do when the kids wake up in the morning? So, the beginning information is very often, “What do I do?” But the information that will get people from the beginning to the intermediate is why. Why do we do this?

SandraDodd.com/parentschange
photo by Colleen Prieto

Depth and breadth

Sink-Like-a-Stone Method:

Instead of skimming the surface of a subject or interest, drop anchor there for a while. If someone is interested in chess, mess with chess. Not just the game, but the structure and history of tournaments. How do chess clocks work? What is the history of the names and shapes of the playing pieces? What other board games are also traditional and which are older than chess? If you're near a games shop or a fancy gift shop, wander by and look at different chess sets on display. It will be like a teeny chess museum. The interest will either increase or burn out—don't push it past the child's interest.

When someone understands the depth and breadth of one subject, he will know that any other subject has breadth and depth.

From "Disposable Checklists for Unschoolers"
SandraDodd.com/checklists
scanner image by Sandra Dodd

Compassion spreads

I didn’t know they would be so compassionate.

Partly they weren’t taught to be cold, by school prejudices.
Partly, they have had a gentle life, and they NOTICE harshness.

Being compassionate about kids' changes can help affect how adults respond to their own and each others' needs and changes.

SandraDodd.com/unforeseen
(notes for a presentation in 2005)
photo by Cally Brown