"Trying 'no limits'"

Someone wrote:

I see so many families trying 'no limits' and then…

I responded:

Two problems: "trying" and "no limits." If a kid knows the parent is only "trying" something, he will certainly take all he can get, desperately and in a frenzy.

"No limits" is not something any family should believe in, or promise their children The world has limits of all sorts. Parents don't need to add to that, but parents can't guarantee "no limits." They CAN give children lots of choices and options.

Gradual change would have helped.

Saying yes a thousand little times is better for everyone than one big confusing "Yes forever, don't care, OH WAIT! Take it back."

SandraDodd.com/cairns
photo by Sandra Dodd (in Albuquerque)

Stepping away from rules

To a question about how to move from rules to principles and choices:

Gradually, without fanfare, be more positive and more supportive of her desires and requests.

Here is an antidote to your no-speed-limits fear. It's called "The Beautiful Park" by Robyn Coburn. It's about people getting off bicycles to walk. I think it could replace your fearful background with something gentle and peaceful.

Read about why, and what others have seen.

Try it a little.

Don't expect her not to think you're crazy at first; wait a while.

Watch her reaction. Feel your own thoughts. Lay your fears out to dry in the air and sunshine.

SandraDodd.com/gradualchange
photo by Cally Brown

Sharing the freedom you have

If I "give my children freedom" in a situation, it's because I had some leeway or rights myself. I cannot "give them freedom" that I don't have.

SandraDodd.com/freedom/limits
photo by Sandra Dodd

Limits are limiting!

I have heard of, read about and communicated with people who referred to themselves as part-time unschoolers, relaxed homeschoolers, eclectic homeschoolers, academic unschoolers and other terms.. . . .
Limited kinds of unschooling will have limited benefits.

The Big Book of Unschooling, page 41 (or try 45)
which leads in to SandraDodd.com/unschool/vsRelaxedHomeschooling
and SandraDodd.com/unschool/marginal
photo by Sandra Dodd

Discover and do and be

"Conventional wisdom" (those truisms that too-often aren't true) says "children need limits," and that good parents have lots of limits (the more limits the better the parent). We've all seen (and some have been in) families where stifling limits caused the very problems they were expected to prevent. But without a counter-mantra to "children need limits" it's easy for parents to fear that it must be true or people wouldn't keep saying it.

If by "limits" people mean "safe boundaries," sure! If by "limits" people mean "someone to watch and care," absolutely! But what people usually mean by "limits" is parents who say "no / don't / stop / forget it / when you're older."

When unschoolers discuss limits they're often discussing arbitrary limits, trumped up to make the parents feel good, or used as magical talismans to guarantee that their children will be creative, healthy and safe. What creates much more magic is to help children discover and do and be.

SandraDodd.com/limits
photo by Brittany Lee Moffatt

Books, directly deposited

Deb Lewis wrote:

Listening to audio books is a wonderful way for kids to experience great stories beyond what they'd be able to read on their own. (And beyond what their moms have voice for!)

SandraDodd.com/limits/listening
photo by Sandra Dodd

Knowing where you are

Parents with a realistic and considered awareness of what their own freedoms are within the laws of the apartment building, housing development, city, county/parish/township, state/province or nation are free to share some of those with their children.

We let Holly choose carpet once, but we couldn't have legally required her to pay for it, as she was only eight or nine at the time.

We have surprised waiters in many restaurants by turning to our children questioningly when the waiter asks the adults "Would you like to see the dessert menu?" They're even more surprised when the kids say, "No thanks," or "I'm full," while making friendly eye contact with the waiter.

More, in context: SandraDodd.com/freedom/limits
photo by Cátia Maciel

Transformations

Choices have transformed our lives. Limitations do not transform lives. They limit lives.

SandraDodd.com/limits
photo by Sandra Dodd
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If you want to listen to me talking about transformations, here. "Something big starts to change."

Flexibility

Children sometimes see things "wrong," or from the perspective of someone small and looking up, or just new to the world. Rather than correcting them, which limits their perspective, consider following their line of thought to see how they're coming up with their conclusions, definitions, or theories.

A chair is not "just a chair," if you're lucky. SandraDodd.com/just
photo by Karen James

Arbitrary rules and limits

Arbitrary rules and limits have the characteristic that they entice kids to think about how they can get around them and can even entice kids to cheat and lie. I know a couple of really really great unschooled kids whose parents set limits on their computer use time. The kids used to get up in the middle of the night to use the computer while their parents were asleep. It is an unintended but very very predictable side effect of rules and limits that they always set parents and children up as adversaries (the parents are setting the rules and the children are being required to obey them &mash; these are adversarial positions) and can lead to kids feeling guilty and sneaky when they inevitably bend or even outright break the rules. Avoiding that kind of possibility is one really good reason for not having rules or limits at all.

Coercion creates resistance and reduces learning.

—Pam Sorooshian
(in an obscure discussion from 2004)

SandraDodd.com/control
photo by Chelsea Thurman Artisan
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From the inside...

Debbie Regan wrote:

"From the outside, unschooling may look like no chores, no bedtimes, no education, no discipline, no structure, no limits, etc. But from the inside, it's about learning, relationships, living with real parameters, partnership, navigating turbulence, making connections, joy, curiosity, focus, enthusiasm, options, following trails, fun, growing understanding, opening doors..."

—Debbie Regan

the original
photo by Kathryn Robles
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Nearly natural limits

Kelly Lovejoy wrote:

The world is FULL of natural limits. Our lives are FULL of natural limits. It's the way we deal with those limits that matters. Finding solutions and dealing with obstacles and knowing what limits are real.

—Kelly Lovejoy

From a discussion of Boundaries, at Unschooling Basics
photo by Ester Siroky

Rational responses

There's a very old joke about a man saying "Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this," and the doctor replying, "Well don't do that."

When someone comes to a radical unschooling discussion to complain about their children's response to bedtimes or limits or "having to" read, they won't get the help they think they want. They will get advice to stop doing that. People will point out that the parents' actions and expectations are the problem, and the children's responses are rational and maybe inevitable.

Where is the edge of unschooling?
(quote from page 38 or 41 of The Big Book of Unschooling)
photo by Sarah Dickinson
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Read, try, wait and watch

Read a little. Try a little. Don't do what you don't understand.

Wait a while. You probably won't see an immediate change. But don't pull your plants up by the roots to see if they're growing. That's not good for any plants or for any children. Be patient. Trust that learning can happen if you give it time and if you give it space.

Watch your own children. Are they calm? Are they happy? Are they curious and interested in things? Don't mar their calm or their happiness with arbitrary limits, or with shame, or with pressure. Be their partner.

SandraDodd.com/video/doright
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Words can block thought

Have you considered putting limits on paper time?
       Cloth time?
               Other-human time?

I wrote that when the umpteenth person asked why unschoolers weren't limiting children's "screentime," without being able to break that down into what a child was actually doing.

Beyond the door
photo by Cátia Maciel
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Love in the moment

Deb Lewis wrote:

One of the beautiful things about unschooling is it gives our kids time to really explore the things they love—to see where they might lead. And if they don't lead to a career or life-long hobby, the love of the thing, in the moment, is still a valuable experience. If you could magically know what would give your child joy, wouldn't you want to provide it? The magic is in trusting our kids to know what they want and in helping them do as much of that as we possibly can. It's not always easy or comfortable, but how do you put a price on learning and joy?

—Deb Lewis

SandraDodd.com/limits/listening
photo by Stephanie Guthaus
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Limits are limiting!

I have heard of, read about and communicated with people who referred to themselves as part-time unschoolers, relaxed homeschoolers, eclectic homeschoolers, academic unschoolers and other terms.. . . .
Limited kinds of unschooling will have limited benefits.

The Big Book of Unschooling, page 41 (or try 45)
which leads in to SandraDodd.com/unschool/vsRelaxedHomeschooling
and SandraDodd.com/unschool/marginal
photo by Sandra Dodd
__

From the inside

Debbie Regan wrote:

From the outside, unschooling may look like no chores, no bedtimes, no education, no discipline, no structure, no limits, etc. But from the inside, it's about learning, relationships, living with real parameters, partnership, navigating turbulence, making connections, joy, curiosity, focus, enthusiasm, options, following trails, fun, growing understanding, opening doors...

—Debbie Regan

SandraDodd.com/priorities
photo by Ve Lacerda

Limiting limitations

There are arbitrary limits that parents just make up, or copy from the neighbors. Then there are limits that have to do with laws, rules, courtesy, tact, circumstances, traditions and etiquette.

SandraDodd.com/coaching
photo by Sandra Dodd
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Transformation through choices

Choices have transformed our lives.
Limitations do not transform lives. They limit lives.



SandraDodd.com/limits
photo by Sandra Dodd
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